Flight School backed up

[CarterL]

I know time to class up varies and also is dependent on your commissioning date. However, i'm looking to apply for either SNA or NFO. I want to fly helicopters if I went SNA. If you were to estimate - would COPTR take same time to wing as NFO? I'm not too sure i'm sold on the 8+ year commitment of aviation. Was excited to see they offer COPTR for those interested in rotary.

Currently in Pensacola getting ready to class up for NIFE after only 5 weeks of waiting. I bet the longer wait times occur during the summer months when the ROTC and Academy guys and gals commission. For COPT-R they are asking for volunteers before starting academics so they can send you straight there once you finish NIFE.

 

[zfriedman]

Currently in Pensacola getting ready to class up for NIFE after only 5 weeks of waiting. I bet the longer wait times occur during the summer months when the ROTC and Academy guys and gals commission. For COPT-R they are asking for volunteers before starting academics so they can send you straight there once you finish NIFE.

Wonder if they’d let an SNFO volunteer if the space was there

 

[ea6bflyr]

Wonder if they’d let an SNFO volunteer if the space was there

No NFOs on helos, so it’s unlikely you’d get COPT-R pipeline.

 

[Peekskill1941]

No NFOs on helos, so it’s unlikely you’d get COPT-R pipeline.

I suspect he’s asking “can I switch to pilot helos if there are no volunteers?”

 

[CarterL]

Wonder if they’d let an SNFO volunteer if the space was there

They are really emphasizing that the have a surplus of SNA’s currently. They have dropped the attrition requirements from 3 pink sheets to 2 pink sheets to help clear people out. I highly doubt they are allowing SNFO’s to transition at the moment.

 

[Mouselovr]

They are really emphasizing that the have a surplus of SNA’s currently. They have dropped the attrition requirements from 3 pink sheets to 2 pink sheets to help clear people out. I highly doubt they are allowing SNFO’s to transition at the moment.

Ouch. That’s brutal, especially bc ~10-15% of a class will fail Nav twice.

I’m assuming the Primary wait is where the big pool of studs is?

 

[CarterL]

Ouch. That’s brutal, especially bc ~10-15% of a class will fail Nav twice.

I’m assuming the Primary wait is where the big pool of studs is?

Yep 2 nav failures and you’d be out. From what I’ve heard from friends ahead of me about 3-4 month wait for both Milton and Corpus right now.

 

[Mouselovr]

Yep 2 nav failures and you’d be out. From what I’ve heard from friends ahead of me about 3-4 month wait for both Milton and Corpus right now.

I get trying to thin the numbers of people down, but it’s shame the cheapest and easiest solution is increasing NIFE standards.

NIFE is a great tool to stress test people’s tolerance and ability to study fast but has little to do with real SNA performance. I’ve hit on this before, (and this is 100% my own anecdotal experience), but the 10+ people I saw get attrited throughout the pipeline did fine in NIFE. Every person with a « sub 86% » average who had to do the « CO meeting », went on to wing.

I’d almost debate keep NIFE the same but increase the initial bar at Primary (pre Fam 0). There were significantly more signs in those early sims if someone wasnt at the needed level of studying and would ultimately go onto to struggle (COPCs)/DOR/attrite.

 

[jointhelocalizer]

NASC will always say there are too many SNAs. That's how they scare people into studying. The party line during my time was "The Navy is trying to cut 700 pilots over the next 10 years" which directly contradicted the Air Boss saying at my graduation that he needed everyone to wing since the Navy was hemorrhaging pilots. I'd reckon the Navy doesn't have too many SNAs, rather they can't train them fast enough. VT manning isn't amazing and there are also plane health issues, but still better than the Fleet on average. Two ways to stop the backup are to either cut it down or up production. Both have their pros and cons.

 

[Randy Daytona]

NASC will always say there are too many SNAs. That's how they scare people into studying. The party line during my time was "The Navy is trying to cut 700 pilots over the next 10 years" which directly contradicted the Air Boss saying at my graduation that he needed everyone to wing since the Navy was hemorrhaging pilots. I'd reckon the Navy doesn't have too many SNAs, rather they can't train them fast enough. VT manning isn't amazing and there are also plane health issues, but still better than the Fleet on average. Two ways to stop the backup is to either cut it down or up production. Both have their pros and

With the wide scale introduction of drones on the battlefield, isn’t the Army reevaluating the number of aviators needed - and any thoughts on Air Force and Navy requirements?

 

[Peekskill1941]

With the wide scale introduction of drones on the battlefield, isn’t the Army reevaluating the number of aviators needed - and any thoughts on Air Force and Navy requirements?

I cannot imagine the number of aviators is going down in the foreseeable future, but yeah, the distant future, probably?

Even then: naval aviation “owes” so many jobs for the disassociated O-3 and O-5 / O-6 duties that there has to be a relatively wide net cast to get the numbers enough for those tours.