Flying for Navy, Marines or Air Force?

[zab1001]

ya know, I'm already knee deep in this argument at Check 6, but this is better than studying....

My analogy to things like this is, how many great landings do you remember? Probably not many, but most pilots do remember their all time greatest prangs. Unfortunately, these are the things that can stand out in your mind. I remember the two AF navs in my API class who *****ed and moaned about everything we had to do, from inspections to tests to swim PT. Then I think to T-44s, and the AF student I got stuck flying 5-7 flights with who wouldn't shut up about how much he missed the enforced studying and how the Navy was screwing up his study technique and how the AF fvcked him out of that fighter slot that he so justly deserved...I also think about the enlisted guys at AF bases that had no bearing, the AF tower guy that wouldn't stop trying to talk to me on the radio as I entered the flare on an emergency landing...etc etc

But if I think harder, I can think of twice as many guys who loaned me gouge, gave me the skinny on the AF IPs who they knew better than I did, the AWESOME C-130 dudes I worked with on deployments, the Base Ops Sgt in Japan who slid me boxes of updated approach plates when my squadron's never showed up on time, the WX LT who ran a full weather packet/OPARS/HWD, the works, with 20 min notice for my good deal trip...

good and bad, just keep perspective on it...

 

[Jetjock863]

As far as basic competitivness goes, i've heard, on both sides, that Air Force slots are harder to get but easier to keep. But what do I know....

 

[Clux4]

I wonder if Airforce pilots get the respect Naval Aviators get when they apply for jobs with this Airlines. Most of their pilots stay-in for about 20 years in most cases, doing absolutely nothing other than flying. I don't know if i would say i envy them.

 

[American_Ace]

I think that's like saying, 'I wonder who gets more respect, Harvard grads or Yale Grads?' However, I've heard from several AF and Navy officers that AF pilots generally do get more flight time. Just my .02

And call me a slacker, but If the AF has less SLJs then how is that a bad thing?

 

[El Cid]

WTF!!! :icon_rage Marines look like polished statues because it goes with their purpose. Marines have to learn to follow orders in a split second and pay attention to details that most let slack because those are the traits that make you survive out in the field. Navy guys are more laid back because our jobs DO NOT demand it. Example: Marines run three miles and are expected to get a of score outstanding or pretty d@mn close before they go on remedial because a fata$$ can't take a machine gun nest. Navy guys smudge PT scores because it doesn't matter if fatty Magee can't run a 6 min mile if he can repair the evaporator in under 6 hours and still get to battle station on time. Get the point! Different needs for different mission requirments. Besides what else do they have time to focus on when they are not out in the field?

Same thing with the Airforce. They don't leave the base. Their jobs are in offices. US Military Bases don't get taken over... at least not where they are. Air Force guys are laid back because it is like a military version of Office Space (with a few exceptions).

p.s. I know some Navy divers that can out PT the majority of the Corps because physical fitness is important to divers.

I've also seen Marines (E-2 to E-6 and a few officers) whose uniforms looked like a soup sandwich!

 

[squeeze]

Ya...and it has nothing to do with pride in our appearance or wanting to look professional in a uniform.

Don't make excuses for those who can't live up to standards, because there is no excuse. It doesn't matter if you're a dunlop-diseased chief or a LCpl rifleman. If you look bad in uniform (be it out of shape or jacked up) you reflect poorly on every other servicemember who wears that uniform.

And if you think attention to detail isn't important in the Navy, you better rethink your desire to be a pilot REAL FAST.

/"rationalization is like masturbation...in the end you're only f-cking yourself" -- dumb quote, but fitting here

 

[Clux4]

I see your thinking, What professionalism is behind a belly sticking out of khakis, or do we need to prescribe Dr. Phils weight loss challenge for America service men and women.

How excited do you think i would be as an enemy to think that my adversary is in the lowest physical shape. I know fatty Magee gets the job done, but does fatty Magee know when next there is going to be another Pearl Habor experience....I don't think so. Yes, i don't know either, but then is it ever possible that someday a fat chief and a Lcpl. would be in a fighting hole together. At least they have both raised up their lil palms to defend the constitution.

What I am trying to get across is this, your physical condition might save your life someday. With this ongoing war on terror, there is no limit to what those bastard are planning to do and if you think you going to be on your ship and everyone around is fighting, you are wrong.

And to the Air Force folks, yes their bases are less likely to be attacked. I bet those guys in Pentagon thought the same way on September 10. I know they will not call the Marines nor the Army guys to guard their Aricrafts.


By the way the Marine Corps has a proven technique for weight loss. It is called RUNNING.

 

[Ryoukai]

Squeeze: Why is the Cheat flying an airplane? He can't fly...he's got no damned hands.

Clux: Dr.Phil is a borderline fatty himself...taking weight loss advice from that fat load of **** is like buying sunglasses off a blind guy.

 

[Slammer2]

Squeeze: Why is the Cheat flying an airplane? He can't fly...he's got no damned hands.

hahaha..."Home taw wunna dot net. It's dawwwwt cawwwm."

 

[El Cid]

Ya...and it has nothing to do with pride in our appearance or wanting to look professional in a uniform.

Don't make excuses for those who can't live up to standards, because there is no excuse. It doesn't matter if you're a dunlop-diseased chief or a LCpl rifleman. If you look bad in uniform (be it out of shape or jacked up) you reflect poorly on every other servicemember who wears that uniform.

And if you think attention to detail isn't important in the Navy, you better rethink your desire to be a pilot REAL FAST.

/"rationalization is like masturbation...in the end you're only f-cking yourself" -- dumb quote, but fitting here

:icon_zbee Relax it wasn't a personal attack or any kind of slight towards the Marine Corps. All I'm saying is that the Marines developed the way they did and the other services the way they did because of a unique history. Pride in appearance developed AFTER the marines became professionalized (circa 1830's). Then all the Marine Corps tradition (which is great... for Marines) started developing because the Marines have a completely unique job. Rangers and Army Special Forces have similar expectations on them as well. Due to the relatively small size of the Marine Corps your standards have permeated through the entire corps. I bet you though; if you take a radioman and an infantryman of similar rank they will give you a slightly different perspective on what the standards are. Pay attention to my point: Different requirements for different jobs. In the Navy it is different. Value is placed on knowledge of rating and ship (Nautical or Aeronautical). If someone can get to battle stations on time and knows how to do their maintenance what does it matter if they are low on the PT scores? It doesn't because he is doing his job and meeting standards. I'd rather have a guy in my shop that can fix an evaporator in half a day that barely meets PT requirements than some PT nazi that doesn't know a crescent wrench from a hole in his a$$. As far as uniforms go, if he fits in them and has all the right stuff on it then fine by me.

I'm not making excuses for people that don't meet the standard. I'm saying that people go over board on expecting everyone to meet their own personal standard. In the Marines you all expect people to get outstanding on PT because your job demands higher physical fitness to increase productivity for your job. People looking good in uniforms reflects the need of Marines to focus on cleanliness of equipment for proper operation (sand in gun makes it less accurate). So that cleanliness standard leaks over to uniform standards because if a Marine looks like $hit then his equipment is probably treated the same way. I guarantee you that your attention to uniform standards was beaten in to your head by a Marine DI and then it has been maintained through your career by like minded Marines who understand the correlation between SAT equipment and uniforms. In the Navy we view things differently because of the unique requirements of our jobs. As long as the equipment is running well it doesn't matter if the uniform standards slack a little. I knew a MMCM Command Master Chief whose uniform didn't meet my standards (dirty ribbons, crusty belt, and faded Khaki's) but he had a spotless engine room and crew that worked like clock work. Now are you going to tell me that he was a bad sailor because his uniformed sucked? If you are then you truly do not understand the differences between Navy and Marine Corps.

Oh, and please don't even think about lecturing me on attention to detail. My experiences in the Nuclear Navy have ingrained that into my DNA. Just remember that it will manifest itself differently because I have a different job. When I get to flight school I will learn the Naval Aviators way. :sly_125:

 

[El Cid]

I see your thinking, What professionalism is behind a belly sticking out of khakis, or do we need to prescribe Dr. Phils weight loss challenge for America service men and women.

How excited do you think i would be as an enemy to think that my adversary is in the lowest physical shape. I know fatty Magee gets the job done, but does fatty Magee know when next there is going to be another Pearl Habor experience....I don't think so. Yes, i don't know either, but then is it ever possible that someday a fat chief and a Lcpl. would be in a fighting hole together. At least they have both raised up their lil palms to defend the constitution.

What I am trying to get across is this, your physical condition might save your life someday. With this ongoing war on terror, there is no limit to what those bastard are planning to do and if you think you going to be on your ship and everyone around is fighting, you are wrong.

And to the Air Force folks, yes their bases are less likely to be attacked. I bet those guys in Pentagon thought the same way on September 10. I know they will not call the Marines nor the Army guys to guard their Aricrafts.


By the way the Marine Corps has a proven technique for weight loss. It is called RUNNING.

Waht are you getting at? I don't quite understand what you are saying and it's not from a lack of trying. Can you clear up your thoughts for me?

p.s. The Constitution is a proper noun... big C.

 

[Clux4]

You need me to explain what i have written above.
What is say is that " You need to get off your lazy a$$, throw that box of donuts away and the soda pops, get some pair of running shoes and hit the road."

What are you talking about. In the Marine Corps we also have fields that don't come close to the sand-box, but still attain high levels of discipline. This is not about your job requiring professionalism, it is about you having pride in you body. I think i have seen more fat people in the Navy than the Airforce even though we dog them.

In case you did not know, Marines shoot rifles and not guns. Guns are what those cops run around with.

 

[El Cid]

You need me to explain what i have written above.
What is say is that " You need to get off your lazy a$$, throw that box of donuts away and the soda pops, get some pair of running shoes and hit the road."

What are you talking about. In the Marine Corps we also have fields that don't come close to the sand-box, but still attain high levels of discipline. This is not about your job requiring professionalism, it is about you having pride in you body. I think i have seen more fat people in the Navy than the Airforce even though we dog them.

In case you did not know, Marines shoot rifles and not guns. Guns are what those cops run around with.

You are not making any sort of valid point. Read my last post... difference in job requirements. People can choose to be at the max or the min... it's our right as service members. That's why we have MINIMUM standards. Marines do their thing and Navy guys, we do our thing. You want us to apply our technical standards on the Marine Corps? No because the jobs are different. In my physical shape I would not make a good Marine but I am well above Navy standards and the National average. On the flip side I wouldn't expect any Marine personnel to be able to fire up a nuclear reactor or work on AEGIS equipment... because they are different jobs. (Refer back to my MMCM paradigm). Fat not fat, it does not matter if the JOB gets done.

You are also missing the ENTIRE point about my historical reference on the professionalization of the Marine Corps. About that time in history is when all services switched from militia rules to a codified system of behavior. In the Marine Corps "pride in your body" came from the need to have clean equipment. It is not a matter of opinion it is historical fact. The concept of "boot camp" didn't truly materialize until just before WWI. Just do me a favor and re-read what I wrote and let it sink in.

As far as guns are concerned... rifles are guns:
gun
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English gonne, gunne
1 a : a piece of ordnance usually with high muzzle velocity and comparatively flat trajectory b : a portable firearm (as a rifle or handgun) c : a device that throws a projectile
2 a : a discharge of a gun especially as a salute or signal b : a signal marking a beginning or ending
3 a : HUNTER b : GUNMAN
4 : something suggesting a gun in shape or function
5 : THROTTLE
- gunned /'g&nd/ adjective
- under the gun : under pressure or attack

By the way what is your job? O or E? Air or Field? (Just trying to keep it civil by knowing what your experiences are you did say we above)

 

[wink]

Strongly as I feel about the Navy vs AF thing, it is, of course, a generalization. I'm not surprised to hear that the officer Herc mentions was boat school. I always found they were a bit less squared away as nugget ensigns. To be fair, they are probably over compensating for 4 years of close supervision. It isn't true either that most naval officers are trained by the USMC. Most come from the USNA and ROTC where their association with Marines varies and may be limited. It is most certainly true though that as a group (generalization again) the OCS guy usually are most squared away, at least in the first couple years. I'm sure that is because of the DI influance. After a couple years in the fleet you can't tell where a guy came from.

 

[evolross]

If you were accepted to both the Air Force SUPT and Navy SUPT (sorry if it is called something else) would you have a better chance to go fighters in the Navy (given you select it) versus in the Air Force? It seems like there is more non-fighter aircraft in the AF, but then again there are probably less pilots in the Navy. Anyone have any ideas?

Out of curiousity... when you are on a tour on a carrier and you are a pilot, is your work day like 8 hours, 12 hours, all hours? I know you are on duty 24/7 and all that but do you get free time and if so what is there to do on an aircraft carrier beside recreation? Do they have like an O-club or a bar or anything?