Foreign Presidential Helo Fleet

[vegita1220]

you want to give money to those corps then go ahead. i wont have that on my conscious. who said anything about us being at war with someone? Those two examples used the deaths, sweat and tears of people to prosper. would you wear clothes knowingly made at sweat shops? i hope not.

I'm not suggesting that any modern society was ever at the level of the Third Reich or the Japanese Army in WW2.

But we've done some pretty $hitty things in the past too. Really, really $hitty things. So have the Brits, and the French, and the Belgians. Just a lot longer ago, over less time. Think the Indians liked us in the 1800's? Bet the slaves weren't too happy either. Deaths, sweat, and tears, right?

Being pissed off over things that happened a long time ago is what makes guys like Ward Churchill say the things they do. I think you gotta move on.

I know this was major OT, sorry, but I think it had to be said...

 

[rare21]

Well i'm not your dad, so like i said before do whatever you want. I will stick to my convictions.

 

[Brett327]

You kids play nice now.

Brett

 

[phrogdriver]

...and in the 1800s a lot of American companies used slave labor, too. Are you going to boycott all those? If these companies used slave labor today, I could see the reasoning. Lockheed-Martin is an American co., and Agusta (Italy) and Westland (UK) are from allies, so deal with it.

 

[rare21]

...and in the 1800s a lot of American companies used slave labor, too. Are you going to boycott all those? .

if i could i would..so deal

 

[UncleFester]

I've got seriously mixed feelings on this. On one hand, NO ONE makes better helos than Sikorsky. They're seriously hard, righteous airplanes. Sikorsky helos got my pops (USMC pilot) home every time for 20 years, including Khe Sanh in '68. I know more than a few -60 and -53 pilots who have walked away from crashes that should have killed them. So. On the other hand, everything I've heard about the Merlin is that it's a damn good helo, too. The Brits swear by them. My main worry is that we'll have an American company building a helo it didn't design and sticking in GE engines it wasn't designed for. Complex machines like aircraft are like human bodies and tend to reject parts that aren't original. The Lycoming engines Congress insisted the Coast Guard put in the Dolphin killed a lot of Coasties and destroyed a lot of airplanes before it was finally fixed. They're still having trouble with the "Made in the USA" avionics, not because they're bad parts, but because the airplane wasn't designed for them. Now we're talking about doing the same thing for Marine One, for God's sake. I see a very long, "troubled" development ahead for the VH-101. Let's hope I'm wrong.

 

[Road Program]

Rare...what about foreign cars built in the US? Cars like Honda and/or Toyota. What about cars built in Mexico, like VW? Did you check the foreign parts content on the window sticker of the last car you bought? What was it? Do you do the same thing with your home appliances?

 

[ChuckMK23]

The Merlin aka EH-101 has been in development for close to 20 years! It's in service with I believe the UK, Canada, Italy and I think Spain is pending. Listen I love Sikorsky products too don't get me wrong - but the H-60 series isn't going away anytime soon and between that, the S-92 in the civil markets, the S-76 and CH-53X coming down the pike Sikorsky has more than enough production orders to keep United Technologies stock holders happy.

The US101 contraact was a nice bone to through to our friends in the UK - I think many have speculated that GWB all but promised the deal to Tony Blair. It's a remarkable aircraft on top of the political considerations.

It also puts in the pipeline a remarkable medium lift all weather transport helo that tyhe Marine Corp could procure "off the shelf" should the V-22 ultimately fail to deliver operational capability - which the defense press seems to be giving 50/50 odds to..

 

[UncleFester]

True, I forgot about Canada. They're flying it as a SAR helo in the Great White North. I think doing SAR off Newfoundland or in the Yukon in February is proof enough it's a righteous machine. An off-the-shelf Merlin would indeed be an excellent Marine One. My beef is just with putting in new engines, avionics and whatnot (blades and reduction gears, too, I'd guess, plus all the countermeasures and sensors) just to satisfy the Buy American Act. It's gonna make it a bastard half-breed, neither fish nor fowl, and it's going to be years before they get it all working right. I don't know how much commonality the VH-92 would have had with the H-60 series, but if it's anywhere close it would have meant a huge reduction in development time, supply and training costs. Plus the whole thing is off-the-shelf American. I'm sure the VH-101 will work eventually, but I got a bad feeling there will be a lot of hearburn and recriminations between now and then.
And yes, I think Westland was thrown the bone as a thank-you present to Tony Blair, at least partially.

 

[Flash]

Canada just ordered 28 S-92's to replace its long suffering SH-3 Sea King fleet (they have had serious maintenance issues in the past few years and it has become a minor scandal up there).

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/07/23/seaking_replace040722.html

 

[UncleFester]

S-92s? I hadn't heard about that. I know CAF SAR flies the Merlin, though they apparently call it the Cormorant.
http://www.teamus101.com/canada.cfm
So the US Military is buying foreign helicopters while the Canucks are buying Sikorskys. Now that's some good irony. Just savor it like a fine wine.

 

[ChuckMK23]

The VH-101 will be a totally integrated machine - it won't be anything like the Coast Guard experience with the Dauphin! No hodge podge piece-meal approach!

First of all - the aircraft was designed from the ground up to offer a choice of power plants - either the Rolly Royce RTM322 or the GE CT-7. The Presedential transport version of the EH-101 will be engined with the CT-7 8E, basically a T700 - the same engine used on the H-60 series aircraft.
This is more and more common now in production aircraft where customers often have a choice of more than one powerplant - the Boeing 777 comes to mind where the aircarft was cerftified for both a Rolls Royce or GE engine as well...

The presedential communications and security special mission equipment package is provided by Northrop-Grumman, ITT, and Palomar Products.

The avionics are mostly standard EH-101 - but with the common data bus architecture customization is fairly easy from an engineering perspective.

Also realize that the test and evaluation of the pre-production versions of the aircraft will be pretty thoroughly vetted at HMX-1 - HMX has a reputation of pragmatic and practical approach to operational validation.

 

[Brett327]

S-92s? I hadn't heard about that. I know CAF SAR flies the Merlin, though they apparently call it the Cormorant.

Don't cormorants dive into the water to hunt for fish? That's not exactly what I'd want my helo doing.

Brett

 

[Flash]

S-92s? I hadn't heard about that. I know CAF SAR flies the Merlin, though they apparently call it the Cormorant.
http://www.teamus101.com/canada.cfm
So the US Military is buying foreign helicopters while the Canucks are buying Sikorskys. Now that's some good irony. Just savor it like a fine wine.

The Comorants have replaced their Phrogs in the SAR role, the S-92's are for their Navy. As for diving into the water, if the pilots drink enough Molson or LAbatt's that is exactly what they will be doing :icon_smil .

 

[rare21]

Rare...what about foreign cars built in the US? Cars like Honda and/or Toyota. What about cars built in Mexico, like VW? Did you check the foreign parts content on the window sticker of the last car you bought? What was it? Do you do the same thing with your home appliances?

as much as i can.. and i dont trust mexican cars

like i said do whatever the hell you all want to. I dont need to be preached to.