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Formation Flying
- Thread starter sbd1995
- Start date
What specifically stresses you out? That may help with the responses.
It’s tough to say exactly. I don’t think I’m that stressed out by being that close to another aircraft. Obviously it’s uncomfortable with only a few hours of formation flying total. I want to be excellent but forms is a major deficiency for me.
I do fly forms really tense and have to make conscious efforts to loosen up. I try to relax and fly with a loose grip, sometimes even fingertips but I feel like I don’t have control or like my inputs do nothing. Maybe this is the way? The other day, IP wanted to check my trim while flying form so I let go of the controls (simulator) and the plane basically just stayed in parade for a few seconds. The second I got back on the controls, I was all over the place again.
I can be in parade fairly well (overworking for sure) but the second we go into turns, immediately wayyy out of position and I don’t fully understand how to get back without over correcting or just stagnating in a sucked position.
Aside from the physical task of flying, any sort of mental things that helped folks relax in their aircraft or make them better pilots would be great as well.
I assume given the subforum this is in, you are in the T-45? Don't worry dude, flying form in that thing sucks balls. You're trimming like every second, every power correction, it just is a real plane. The F/A-18 isn't like that. At least I don't think it is. I don't think I suddenly got so much better at form between T-45's and Hornets at least. You just need some reps and sets, you'll be fine. Most people aren't naturals at this stuff. At the real nuts and bolts level, it sounds like you might be a little "binary" on the controls. Don't make a big control input and wait for the response. Make a small one (I realize you don't know what "big" is, so just a little less than normal, obviously not so little you hit your lead), and see if it is enough, before adding more if it isn't. You're getting yourself into a PIO it sounds like, if you're trimmed out to start with (a couple seconds is all the T-45 is good for trim wise in close formation anyway)
That being said, it sounds like you might be getting in your own head about this. That is the #2 killer of students, after #1 just not being prepared/bad attitude + sucking. So go easier on yourself. That isn't to say don't take it seriously and not try to improve from all your mistakes. Just know that we all make them, especially when you are learning, and letting one mistake cascade into a series of mistakes because you are mentally stuck on 5/10/30 minutes ago in the flight, is not what you want. Make the mistake(s), brush it off, and keep doing your best. Way easier said than done, but that is how you crack that nut. Nobody expects you not to make mistakes. As an instructor, I get to do my job when you do, and teach, which I like. None of us get mad when there is a teachable moment.
That being said, it sounds like you might be getting in your own head about this. That is the #2 killer of students, after #1 just not being prepared/bad attitude + sucking. So go easier on yourself. That isn't to say don't take it seriously and not try to improve from all your mistakes. Just know that we all make them, especially when you are learning, and letting one mistake cascade into a series of mistakes because you are mentally stuck on 5/10/30 minutes ago in the flight, is not what you want. Make the mistake(s), brush it off, and keep doing your best. Way easier said than done, but that is how you crack that nut. Nobody expects you not to make mistakes. As an instructor, I get to do my job when you do, and teach, which I like. None of us get mad when there is a teachable moment.
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It’ll come to you.
I wiggled my fingers and toes a lot in the beginning, to make sure I was staying relaxed. Sometimes I still do, thousands of hours later.
Small moves on the stick. Work the trim hat, so you aren’t holding constant force on the stick. Don’t fixate on one spot- scan over lead’s entire aircraft. Above all, remain calm.
Hope this helps!
I wiggled my fingers and toes a lot in the beginning, to make sure I was staying relaxed. Sometimes I still do, thousands of hours later.
Small moves on the stick. Work the trim hat, so you aren’t holding constant force on the stick. Don’t fixate on one spot- scan over lead’s entire aircraft. Above all, remain calm.
Hope this helps!
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I'll give you three suggestions that absolutely work.
1. Happy hands: Get in the habit of making small little corrections continually, even if you don't need them. Just make the plane jump around a teeny little bit always. Move the corrections from little to tiny as you get smoother, move them back out to little if you are oscillating around.
I used to have students in my Form brief balance a pointer on their finger while talking. We'd talk about how they were constantly moving their finger while balancing, not waiting to see a deviation. Creating small ones themselves and then correcting for it, actually. you want to do the same with the airplane. Stick and throttle. Small and continuous.
This came from a SERGRAD named Sam "Slammer" Richardson who went on to be CO of a bunch of stuff. Gouge.
2. Power + Attitude = Performance: It's not just for the landing pattern. When you find yourself momentarily where you need to be with respect to the lead aircraft and are stable, smooge a thumb stain from your greasy glove on the wind screen where the lead plane is (attitude) and note the power setting using your lizard eye (power). Note the sound too. Just become aware of it for a second. Do it for all the maneuvers.
Then, if you find yourself squirreling around, go back to the attitude (put the plane in that spot on the canopy) and power setting (sound) you've learned and you'll be close. Make small changes from there.
3. Hands off: when not dynamically rolling in or out of turns, etc., let go a second. All pressure off the stick. You might think you are trimming, but until you can let go with your grubby fingers, you won't know for sure. Just don't adjust your O2 mask for 10 seconds doing it. Keep'em right there.
1. Happy hands: Get in the habit of making small little corrections continually, even if you don't need them. Just make the plane jump around a teeny little bit always. Move the corrections from little to tiny as you get smoother, move them back out to little if you are oscillating around.
I used to have students in my Form brief balance a pointer on their finger while talking. We'd talk about how they were constantly moving their finger while balancing, not waiting to see a deviation. Creating small ones themselves and then correcting for it, actually. you want to do the same with the airplane. Stick and throttle. Small and continuous.
This came from a SERGRAD named Sam "Slammer" Richardson who went on to be CO of a bunch of stuff. Gouge.
2. Power + Attitude = Performance: It's not just for the landing pattern. When you find yourself momentarily where you need to be with respect to the lead aircraft and are stable, smooge a thumb stain from your greasy glove on the wind screen where the lead plane is (attitude) and note the power setting using your lizard eye (power). Note the sound too. Just become aware of it for a second. Do it for all the maneuvers.
Then, if you find yourself squirreling around, go back to the attitude (put the plane in that spot on the canopy) and power setting (sound) you've learned and you'll be close. Make small changes from there.
3. Hands off: when not dynamically rolling in or out of turns, etc., let go a second. All pressure off the stick. You might think you are trimming, but until you can let go with your grubby fingers, you won't know for sure. Just don't adjust your O2 mask for 10 seconds doing it. Keep'em right there.
Have you gotten the gouge about the little rail on the cockpit wall where you can rest your pinky to "baseline" your power corrections? I found that super helpful in basically all aspects of flying the T-45 but especially in the pattern and in parade. Helps to avoid the big on/off binary corrections/PIO
To this day, I still remind myself sometimes “wiggle your fingers, wiggle your toes” when I’m tensed up flying form.
Try sticking out your pinky finger on your stick hand too. Helps relax stick movements. I don’t know why it helps but it does.
For throttle stuff, just remember three part power corrections. Like flying the ball.
Jump in a sim and practice some form. It may not match reality perfectly but it will help with muscle memory.
Give it time and be patient with yourself!
There is a ton of awesome advice in this thread. Flying jets you'll find that pretty much every flight is going to be a formation flight. You'll get there!!!
My only advice to add to the already great stuff here is to chew gum, and when you get stressed out sing whatever song is stuck in your head at the moment. Give the involuntary (gum chewing) and the voluntary (singing) parts of your brain something else to do. From there slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
The T-45 can be a bitch if you get underpowered.
Also, there is no better runner join-up than coming in hot on lead with 100kts of closure on the opposite wing and canopy rolling right into position, followed closely by the shit-hot fan break after a great flight.
What throttle friction, if any, are you using? Not sure if it’s gouge or what, but every student I’ve flown with uses almost no throttle friction…and it shows in ball flying and forms when their power corrections are way too large.
Where is your hand in relation to the stick? I find it easier to fly form and less “sensitive” if you hold the base of the stick.
Good luck.
Where is your hand in relation to the stick? I find it easier to fly form and less “sensitive” if you hold the base of the stick.
Good luck.
says a 737 somewhere
I’d forgotten about that thing. It is useful like you say
I'm obviously not going to weigh in on how to fly a T-45, but this gouge seems to resonate to some degree with old school platforms. I'm thinking specifically of the TH-57B. Stir the pot.
I had to unlearn it when I trained to fly an MQ-1 and -9, since you are commanding a pitch attitude rather than a rate or an actual control surface. Landing in gusty conditions…must…not…chase…nose.