France's Burqa ban goes into effect.

[UCbearcat]

It's technically not a burqa ban. In theory if someone forced me to don a ski mask, they would be fined and possibly face prison sentence.

So wouldn't a Halloween mask be considered illegal, too? Will children be arrested on Halloween?

 

[BusyBee604]

My View

To me this is discrimination pure and simple, under the guise of 'security'.

If you will allow me to vigourously disagree, but to ME, with the safety/security of my fellow American citizens at mortal risk, I believe Security trumps Equality to non-citizens in every instance. To believe otherwise is to surrender to the pervasive 'Political Correctness' climate of this era! :watching_

IMHO...right or wrong, that's MY view! (But, I respect your opinion and still share with, and applaud your fondness for BarBQ :icon_lol!
BzB :sleep_125

 

[craftingraptor]

I walk into my bank and I have to remove my sunglasses and hat if I'm wearing one so I'm fully visible to everyone in the building (including the cameras).

I thought that was a recent rule that banks created specifically because an old guy with a baseball cap and sunglasses kept robbing banks at gunpoint.

 

[gparks1989]

Are you talking about the school law referred to above? Because this ban certainly doesn't prohibit that.

And while this is a secularly worded law, you could argue it's a pretty thinly veiled targeted law that is causing a big stir at EXACTLY the demographic it was aimed at. I mean, who ELSE wears items that cover the face OTHER than muslims, on a day to day basis, in spite of weather?

Like Brett, I'm curious to see the fallout from this. While there may only be "2000" Niqab-wearing muslim women, there are a LOT of less observant muslims in France that will certainly be enraged about this. If I am remembering correctly, France has experienced a HUGE influx of Muslim/Arab immigration, and the population is in the millions now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3619988.stm

I'm not sure about crosses, but it specifically labels the "skull caps." What exactly that refers to is beyond me, but I presumed it referred to the yarmulka/kippa. The law also affects Sikhs.

As to your second point, no argument there. This is a blatant tit-for-tat for the banlieues riots in 2005. As such, it would've have made more sense to target 20-something Algerians as opposed to women. It doesn't help that France, Germany and the UK have all come out saying that multi-culturalism has been a massive failure. This also explains the rightward shift of much of the European electorate.

 

[gparks1989]

So wouldn't a Halloween mask be considered illegal, too? Will children be arrested on Halloween?

One could argue that is specific ritual/celebration where it would be appropriate or even required.

 

[Brett327]

So wouldn't a Halloween mask be considered illegal, too? Will children be arrested on Halloween?

They don't do Halloween in France.

Brett

 

[BusyBee604]

My objection is that this is clearly a law aimed at Muslim beliefs and customs.

Well, 'radical' Muslim law, beliefs and customs... consider non-believers as Infidels, and as such, fair game for death [murder]. Now, until we have a surefire method to differentiate which Muslims are 'radical' and which are not, subject law is legit! :icon_smil
BzB :sleep_125

 

[ryan1234]

To me this is discrimination pure and simple, under the guise of 'security'.

So? It's France... who cares?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

My objection is that this is clearly a law aimed at Muslim beliefs and customs.

I get what your saying about the whole covering their heads, not being able to identify etc. But this wasn't written as a way to stop anarchists trying to topple the government, it was written specifically to single out a religious group. And I'm sorry but it wasnt women wearing Burqa's that lit Paris on fire a few years back. It might have been largely led my Arab and Muslim immigrants, but they were largely young males... not women in Burqa's.

To me this is discrimination pure and simple, under the guise of 'security'.

Perhaps they think that wearing a burqa is not compatible with French culture. If they want to tell immigrants to assimilate or leave, so what? Are you telling me it is a foreigner's right to live in another country? I wouldn't go to Turkey and preach about Jesus on the streets, nor would I go to Mecca and walk around in a speedo. I don't feel that infringes on my rights, it's their country and they should do what they want.

 

[xxxCharliexxx]

I thought that was a recent rule that banks created specifically because an old guy with a baseball cap and sunglasses kept robbing banks at gunpoint.

Your point? People masking their appearance and identity = a safety concern.

Thanks for proving my point though

-Charlie

 

[statesman]

Well, 'radical' Muslim law, beliefs and customs... consider non-believers as Infidels, and as such, fair game for death [murder]. Now, until we have a surefire method to differentiate which Muslims are 'radical' and which are not, subject law is legit! :icon_smil
BzB :sleep_125

I suppose we disagree on that particular point. I'm pretty libertarian and so I take a more 'innocent until proven guilty' approach. Still though I don't think that it's women in burqa's that are causing all the trouble in France. They might be a small percentage, but I would expect they are a VERY SMALL percentage of the agitators, but a burqa is a highly visible display of certain Muslim beliefs and that's why I think the French have targeted it. More as a symbol than an actual security measure.

So? It's France... who cares?

Fair enough. I think it gets under my skin because this is a country who routinely snubs their noses at the US for the way we do business. In both a public and a more private sense. I have family that still lives in France, and my cousin married a French national... on the international stage France is no stranger to giving the US the middle finger, but it burns me up even more I suppose because of conversations I have had personally with French people.

 

[BusyBee604]

I'm pretty libertarian and so I take a more 'innocent until proven guilty' approach..

I understand that, the problem/fallacy here is that... 'until proven guilty'! By that time...It's TOO LATE, and the victim could well be one or more of your family/loved ones. I can't see taking that chance with an enemy sworn to murder as many of my fellow Countrymen as possible. But that's me! :tiger_125

With the type of barbaric radical enemy we face today, the archaic Gentlemanly 'Laws of Civility' no longer apply! They want our heads...:icon_flir
BzB

 

[statesman]

I agree its a tough call, no doubt...

But along the realm of the '... its too late' consider the case of what economist John Lott Jr. calls 'multiple victim public shooters' (i.e. Arizona, Columbine, V. Tech, etc). In nearly 100% of the cases of multiple victim public shootings the suspect is arrested, killed, or commits suicide, they rarely cover their face, and they often have resigned themselves to death. The MO is remarkably similar to the suicide bomber, with the exception that MVPSs don't have a profile that can be used to identify them before hand, and they usually act alone. Usually MVPSs kill and wound similar numbers of people as do the cafe suicide bombs in Tel Aviv.

I suppose I'm not posing a potential solution to the problem, which I hate to do, but I am simply saying that a.) cracking down on religions expression is wrong, b.) it will only inflame the situation, and c.) will prevent 0 bombings and terrorist attacks. Certainly there are large numbers of very extreme Muslim sects that are aimed at waging war against western culture, and sure France is much closer to the action than is the United States, but again I dont think it's the women in burqas who are doing the bombing. Every once in a while sure, but female suicide bombers are found in larger numbers in Palestine / Israel.

 

[Scoob]

Whether this is about being Anti-Muslim, anti-bank robber, or "multi-victim public shooter" is beside the point. ITS FRANCE!!!! Out of control PC-ism, anti-discrimination, and white guilt that hamstrings America does not apply. France can do whatever the hell it wants. Good on 'em for forcing the issue. At the very least, hopefully it will lead to protest on the part of mainstream Muslims and force them to take some major steps to distance themselves from the fundamentalist whack-jobs.

If we tried something like this, we would be playing right into the hands of the people we're fighting, enabling them to use the media to point at us and say "see what infidels they are?!?!?" At least this way some amount of tit for tat (ala reciprocal laws that Fog was getting at) can come about by only dumping gasoline (France) on the fire instead of liquid oxygen (US) - nobody really takes France seriously, anyway.

 

[IRfly]

Au contraire, mon ami. The "Muslim world" takes France very seriously. Much moreso than the U.S., in many regards, as the U.S. is widely viewed as a tool of the "Zionist-imperialists." France is supposed to be their friend. Hopefully this will be regarded as a shot across the bow/warning that their crap won't be tolerated forever. Now, if only Britain would jump on board...