French "almost" fire on Israeli jets

[Brett327]

Brett,

i suspect it was a MANPAD vice anything radar-guided. could be wrong though. personally i'd like to see if the French has the sack to engage the Israeli's.

as you said though, no doubt there is more to the situation than the media knows about.

Yeah, I considered that, but there's really no way of knowing. I'd be surprised if they didn't have some Rolands over there. Hell, they could get spare parts from the Iraqis.

Brett

 

[FlyinSpy]

i suspect it was a MANPAD vice anything radar-guided. could be wrong though. personally i'd like to see if the French has the sack to engage the Israeli's.

From Le Figaro (pretty much the French "horse's mouth"): "The force will also be protected by a very short-range surface-to-air (SATCP) missile defence section and a Cobra radar of the artillery brigade from Haguenau." (http://www.lefigaro.fr/english/20060830.WWW000000312_france_deploys_heavy_weapons_in_lebanon.html)

The SATCP is the French Army's fielding of the Mistral:
http://www.recrutement.terre.defense.gouv.fr/ficheMetier.do?id=495. It would be surprising if they had additional air defense systems with them, so this is likely the system in question.

The "two seconds from firing" doesn't make a ton of sense from a launch sequence perspective, but then again it wouldn't be the first time that something like this was lost in the translation. Plausible explanation: They were about to depress the Seeker Activation Lever on the system, which powers up the missile and cools the seeker; decent description of the sequence can be found here: http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/army/sam/mistral.html

 

[IRfly]

I said supposedly because just about everything surrounding the Israeli nuke program is shrouded in secrecy, including its origins. While it is pretty certain that the French helped them out in a big way in the beginning I would not discount them getting help from others. They were ready to make a deal with almost anyone in order to ensure "never again....." was a reality.

The only person who has first hand knowledge about the program and has publicly said anything about it was thrown in jail for almost 20 years (after being kidnapped by the Mossad) and even though he was released recently, he is still forbidden to say anything about it. Wikipedia will give you a good intro about him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu

Forbidden, but still talking to anyone who cares to listen... Although he's old(er) news by new, he did set the Sephardic social advancement back by 20 years... The unfortunate thing for Mr. Vanunu is that he has nothing new left to disclose, ergo no one is going to help him get out of Israel. So he's stuck in the country to which he was a traitor for the rest of his life (probably). And it's a small country.

Funny thing about that is that Israel has still managed to retain some ambiguity about their nuclear program--the result of not testing, I suppose. Heck, even the Israelis don't know for sure if their bombs will work, but fortunately the rest of the Middle East isn't lining up to help them find out.

Just for the sake of fun speculation...Who, other than the French, could have given Israel a hand in constructing a reactor? The other nuclear weapon powers of the time (U.S., Britain, and USSR) sure wouldn't have helped. Maybe Canada (uranium)? Norway (heavy water)? I haven't seen any research on this particular subject, although it is an interesting question (I haven't really explored it that much, either). In Israeli circles, the conventional wisdom just points to France.

 

[Flash]

Forbidden, but still talking to anyone who cares to listen... Although he's old(er) news by new, he did set the Sephardic social advancement back by 20 years... The unfortunate thing for Mr. Vanunu is that he has nothing new left to disclose, ergo no one is going to help him get out of Israel. So he's stuck in the country to which he was a traitor for the rest of his life (probably). And it's a small country.

Funny thing about that is that Israel has still managed to retain some ambiguity about their nuclear program--the result of not testing, I suppose. Heck, even the Israelis don't know for sure if their bombs will work, but fortunately the rest of the Middle East isn't lining up to help them find out.

Just for the sake of fun speculation...Who, other than the French, could have given Israel a hand in constructing a reactor? The other nuclear weapon powers of the time (U.S., Britain, and USSR) sure wouldn't have helped. Maybe Canada (uranium)? Norway (heavy water)? I haven't seen any research on this particular subject, although it is an interesting question (I haven't really explored it that much, either). In Israeli circles, the conventional wisdom just points to France.

Who is to say they have not tested?

The guilt from the Holocaust weighed heavy on some countries (not doing enough to help, etc.), just because the help was not public does not mean it did not happen......

 

[IRfly]

Who is to say they have not tested?

The guilt from the Holocaust weighed heavy on some countries (not doing enough to help, etc.), just because the help was not public does not mean it did not happen......

True enough...But no solo, confirmed tests, anyway.

And aside from the U.S. turning a blind eye, I'm pretty skeptical that any assistance came from these countries. But anything is possible.