Future of Marine Corps

[DanMa1156]

I wouldn't complain about the day because your systems aren't working - when you have your system working, you can get an actual mission drop, brief, and execute in around an hour.

Also, I think you're exaggerating a bit here. Is that how it should be? Yeah, absolutely. Is that how our community actually is? No. Comparing the CAS brief I did with some VFA types that was 15-20 minutes long to one that our community expects are two different things. Maybe it was my squadron and we played Narnia more than the rest of HSC, but all the intel slides, the smart packs with color coding, the comm plan that you walk through every system in the priority of degradation, the lighting configurations, all things that non-helo guys don't brief because it's a) standard, b) not-relevant to "what's different about today, c) assumed they know those things whereas our briefs are at least 25% "show me what you know," which isn't how an actual mission brief would go down. I was always amazed that an ASUW Level 3 Straits Transit brief would take over an hour plus questions from the SWTIs, but in practice, took 20 minutes. Oh, and the best part? The Weapon Schooler grading you was an Exped Guy who did a USNS Comfort deployment and never actually did an armed Straits Transit, but read about it in SEAWOLF and wants to make sure I read the pub too, plus that latest directive from REBLUE (spelling?) lectures on the topic that ended updating SEAWOLF back to what the NTRP from the HS days said anyway, or even better yet, actually validates a gouge number you've been critiqued for using in the past because the former HS guy that is grading you won't let you use numbers from the MTS OTG because they haven't been validated in SEAWOLF, but SEAWOLF's tactics are based off the SH-60F's FLIR, not the MTS. To top it all off, none of this stuff is taught to you in the FRS (although that's supposedly getting better - as is the SEAWOLF manual itself, which is obviously more updated than the SH-60F FLIR at this point).

Sorry for the threadjack and the community rant - I really do love HSC, but I get why VFA types make fun of us for our ASUW tactics and want to poke their eyes out when we brief.

 

[Brett327]

Now Brett - I suspect your current billet and collar device may have a little bit to do with the enjoyment you are experiencing, no?

Nope. I've pretty much always felt that way, and that's why I (we) still do this well past the 20 year mark.

 

[pilot_man]

I disagree. Traps are pretty damn fun. Maybe when you're on cruise and they become routine you forget how much so. Cat launches same thing; though they're not challenging they're definitely satisfying.

I do get tired of the "the boat is admin" speech. What is everybody trying to accomplish with that line? I hear it everywhere and it makes no sense. We're supposed to be proud of flying from the ship, not scoff at it. That's what much of the tradition is about in our culture. Living on the boat sucks. I agree with you there.

Are you trying to say it doesn't deserve the same respect as tactics, because I'm pretty sure the boat kills more people and crashes more planes than the enemy.

Yes, traps are pretty damn fun. But so much fun that you would give up living a normal life to be on the boat? Not for me. Being on the boat is like time warping back to 2005 as far as technology goes.

Get tired all you want. Landing on the boat is admin. Yes, currently that is our highest threat but that will all change if we get into a real war. And the magical carpet is making life all that much easier now.

And yes, I respect the fact that I can take a division of Super Hornets and man a DCA lane for however long needed over the fact that I can bring 4 jets back into the overhead and snap it off at 6 bills. Just because it's in our culture doesn't mean it's right. Do you think the AF guys are super impressed with us when we get overrun in our lane, can't get a coherent picture call out, and everyone "dies" but man we looked good in the break? That's Tomcat mentality there.

Bottom line for me is that it could be really cool flying off the boat. It would be easy to fix a lot of the bullshit. But we won't.
If given the option I would chose flying from an airfield in country and getting to the fight quicker than transiting for an hour each way and dealing with boat life.

 

[Recovering LSO]

On a boat you have no booze (or you get fired), the food is shit and costs you at least $10 a day

East Coast VFA XO asked this question at end of flag panel this year at hook. Fast forward to time 21:30.

 

[pourts]

East Coast VFA XO asked this question at end of flag panel this year at hook. Fast forward to time 21:30.

For those of us with really slow internet, can you paraphrase the answer?

 

[zippy]

Whereas in Camp Buehring (warning! RUN ON SENTENCE approaching!), you'd argue with your friends over who needs access to JMPS more, then you'd finally get done, JMPS crashes the whole computer and your powerpoint for your Level III magically didn't save to the share drive, so you re-do everything and now it's 10 PM and you have a 0700 brief, you get angry when the printer isn't connected right, then it connects but it's out of ink, you find the new ink cartridge and know the JMPS-O will yell at you for using it since funds are so tight apparently, get to the tent at 1130 full of dust, take a shower, come back, try to fall asleep but the night shift maintainers are just coming back now so they are all riled up and play video games and get on skype for the next several hours, wake up at 0600, rush to the DFAC, realize the line is too long, get back to the tent to get in the gator that you were promised the pilots would get (1 for pilots, 1 for maintainers), but you realize that it's gone, ask the Det-MO where it went, to which he replies "ah shit man, I let AT2 have it so he could drive to the DFAC and back. I guess he took it to the flight line too. Sorry bro." Now, you do a fast paced walk to the flight line to get there 15 minutes later and 15 minutes before your brief. Phew, you made it! But, naturally one of the DHs on the flight stayed in that line at that DFAC so he could eat and then you start 15 minutes late as if that would have been OK for you to have done, you do an awkward time hack that is half because if you don't do it the SWTI will critique you for not doing it, and half to emphasize that the DH was late. The next 40-minutes to an hour you give a brief, then spend about 10 minutes getting grilled. Then you go preflight, find out the other helo is down, maintenance patches it up 30 minutes later, and you go do a 2.0 ASUW card. When you return you shut down, and debrief for 45 minutes and of course, the SWTI AW in the room finds every nit-pick detail you nail you on even though he has little clue what was actually happening in the cockpit at the time, but his fellow SWTI brethren DH jumps on those points too. Then, out of no where you get told "yeah so overall, pretty good flight," and realize you passed. Cool.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Camp Beuhring, but it's all perspective. It had its downsides too, at times. At the end of the day, it was a good way to stay fresh in the overland missions and a good morale booster if for nothing else, just to do something different than to be on the boat for 10 months.

Life as an upgrading pilot sucks regardless of where you are.

DFAC to-go boxes come in handy... As does asking the O-4 what the best way to write "Offdeck late due to Operations department" or "Off deck late due to personnel" on the mission summary sheet in circumstances where the other Helo doesn't break in the future would be.

Issues that are outside of ones control (mx, weather delays etc.) happen regularly but people get real motivated to show up on time when you actually start reporting delays in takeoff and arrivals on station that are mx and ATC related. This tactic is also incredibly helpful to highlight issues that affect flight operations that need to be addressed by individuals way above your pay grade to make the overall operation run smoother. Example:

Instance where flightline security (yay contractors) constantly harassed crews over flight line badges, acess lists etc. prior to every flight, even though they saw the same crews, 4x daily for months on end. One morning at about 0230 the good folks at gate wouldn't let a copilot of a crew on the flight line due to some bullshit paperwork, that was supposed to have been done, and approved by the base, wasn't in order. End result is an ISR flight supporting tier 1 unit takes off 45 minutes late, resulting in a coverage gap onstation, as a replacement pilot with acceptable paperwork for the gate nazis is found and the delay gets written up in the mission summary sheets to explain why there was a gap in coverage on station. Someone with a lot of pull on an entirely different base got to read that mission summary sheet and, after what was almost certainly a shit storm of epic proportions, by the very next evening all of the admin issues with the adversarial gate folk were solved and suddenly they became very accommodating to the crews.

 

[squorch2]

For those of us with really slow internet, can you paraphrase the answer?

Air Boss says he "has it for action" and his supply officer is talking with... someone... in NAVSUP to determine why officers pay for meals.

 

[SynixMan]

Sorry for the threadjack and the community rant - I really do love HSC, but I get why VFA types make fun of us for our ASUW tactics and want to poke their eyes out when we brief.

C'mon man. You're talking about the HAZE-EX of syllabus upgrading shenanigans combined with you not being let off the boat leash for more than the week. That's different than no shit everyone pitches in operations from a land det.

 

[hscs]

Also, I think you're exaggerating a bit here.

Nope - done it multiple times.

Again, it is all about preparation - aircraft pre-spun, everyone knew their SOPs, division of duties on planning, and everyone does their job.

As Zippy said, upgrading sucks - and it will just make you better.

 

[DanMa1156]

C'mon man. You're talking about the HAZE-EX of syllabus upgrading shenanigans combined with you not being let off the boat leash for more than the week. That's different than no shit everyone pitches in operations from a land det.

No, sorry if I'm blending the two. But, we pretty much exclusively would go to Kuwait for syllabus upgrades - which - while awesome experiences, are a different beast that at home, and the logistical aspect is that part that I'm saying is a reasonable complaint - just the constant unpacking and repacking of all your gear - it is tiring setting up a network and lugging all the flight gear, all your personal stuff, and all the mission planning equipment across a flight line the night before a 0600 brief every Monday night, especially when your maintainers decide they'd rather go to the USO and left with the gator so you're physically hauling it. The rest? I wasn't actually complaining, just making light humor of all the nuances of being there.

Nope - done it multiple times.

Again, it is all about preparation - aircraft pre-spun, everyone knew their SOPs, division of duties on planning, and everyone does their job.

As Zippy said, upgrading sucks - and it will just make you better.

And I'd agree with you if we were doing anything larger than the footprint of upgrading pilots. So, sure, you have your wingman and probably 1 other pilot with you who is doing his card the next day, but other than that, you aren't about to ask the 2 DH's that are there to grade you for networking help, printer issues, etc. And, the AW's, maybe your experience was different than mine, but asking them to do anything more that copying and pasting the same gunner's brief they've always used was like pulling their teeth 99% of the time.

 

[hscs]

No, sorry if I'm blending the two. But, we pretty much exclusively would go to Kuwait for syllabus upgrades - which - while awesome experiences, are a different beast that at home, and the logistical aspect is that part that I'm saying is a reasonable complaint - just the constant unpacking and repacking of all your gear - it is tiring setting up a network and lugging all the flight gear, all your personal stuff, and all the mission planning equipment across a flight line the night before a 0600 brief every Monday night, especially when your maintainers decide they'd rather go to the USO and left with the gator so you're physically hauling it. The rest? I wasn't actually complaining, just making light humor of all the nuances of being there.




And I'd agree with you if we were doing anything larger than the footprint of upgrading pilots. So, sure, you have your wingman and probably 1 other pilot with you who is doing his card the next day, but other than that, you aren't about to ask the 2 DH's that are there to grade you for networking help, printer issues, etc. And, the AW's, maybe your experience was different than mine, but asking them to do anything more that copying and pasting the same gunner's brief they've always used was like pulling their teeth 99% of the time.

Which is one reason why CAGs have issues letting HSC go ashore....

 

[DanMa1156]

Which is one reason why CAGs have issues letting HSC go ashore....

Ultimately, did it work? Absolutely. I and several others made Level III because of Kuwait which allowed me to fly as a HAC for just over half of my first-tour cruise. Was it enjoyable? Yeah, mostly. Did we ever lose PG or VERTREP coverage? Not one bit, and that was with a VERTREP Det on a T-AOE (2 birds there, 2 in Kuwait, 4 on CVN). HSC-5 actually operated up in Iraq (that SAR that was all over the news a little while back). Hopefully that is a sign of thing to come from CAGs trusting in HSC, though, of course, I get the politics of operating from a carrier to prove the Navy's relevancy.

Anyway, what was a tongue-in-cheek post about whether I liked the boat or land-dets better turned into a far-too-serious discussion about our community.

 

[Pags]

on the LHD all the Marines hated the boat. Until they went in to the field in third world countries and did the full Marine thing. After a few weeks of MREs, tents, bugs, snakes, and rats everyone was happy to come back to the Death Star.