FY 19 EDO DCO BOARD

[Chance_EDO]

I couldn't tell you which is right. The spreadsheet you saw maybe said June 20, 2017? I was told the board this year convened on June 7. Whichever it is, best of luck to you. If you have 20 years experience, you're golden.



Active duty EDOs are largely SWOs who redesignate after their sea tours and warfare qual (there's also lateral transfers and other things). Thing is, the same engineering B.S. requirement applies, and relatively speaking, you won't find a lot of those.

Then for those who want to be EDOs, they go to NPS for 2 years and go through qualifications and have at least a 2 year obligation. A lot of Navy officers just want to leave after they paid back the 4 years required of them from NROTC or USNA, and not incur at least another 4 years. There's also lots of SWOs that may stay in another 1-3 years during their shore tours to "figure out their life" after the Navy, so to speak. I live in a major Navy city and have known tons of these.

Then we look at the Navy Reserve DCO program. Think about it this way:
- How many engineers give a second thought about the military? Look at engineers around you. Our mindset is different from the average. There tends to be more rationality, more practicality, less machismo, etc.
- Why would someone making a six-figure salary working on the cutting-edge of technology, energy, construction, auto, etc. want to deal with the military, unless they have deeply-seated interests and motivations?
- How many people are even aware of what any military service reserve is, what the Navy DCO program is, or what an EDO is?
- How many engineers are even US citizens?
- How many meet basic fitness standards, nevermind the ability to run, push-up, and curl-up much better than the average person? This includes me with regards to running. I used to be a solid runner, but ignoring most cardio for the last 4 years to focus on lifting is biting me in the ass. Don't be deceived if you have a great bench press 5RM either. It's a different beast from cranking out 80+ push-ups in one set.

There's a lot more reasons why so few engineers apply to the Navy EDO DCO program but we could brainstorm about that for hours.



You're a unicorn as you are already. You don't need a fancy computer science PhD from Cal or CMU.

EDOs don't really practice engineering. You won't be playing with CAD tools, coding, design, etc. It's a bit more like technical program management. And unless you're a civil engineer, I can't imagine there being much in the military that would be a better opportunity for engineers than in the civilian world.

Thank you Sculpin, I am very impressed by your answers!

As I review more and more of the highly qualified profiles from other DCO applicants (ie PAO and IWC candidates), I think I am going to just focus my energy on re-applying the next go around.

I did apply last week but I only finished my packet the day before the EDO board. My OR was excellent and they helped to push me on to finish this packet in only a few weeks. However, everything happened so quickly that I didn't have the luxury of time to "strategize" my packet. As such, I don't think I presented my strongest kit/ packet.

Question:
1) Do you have any idea/ guess on when we will hear back?
2) Does anyone know when the next board/ next deadline is?

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Here's a major difference between OCS and DCO applications. With OCS, you can apply to most things which some kind of STEM degree. OCS is meant for people straight out of college anyways, and they mostly look at GPA/OAR. Even designators strongly preferring specific engineering/technology majors, you'll find social science / humanities majors getting selected for them sometimes.

However, DCO is a completely different story. You have to apply to a designator where you have relevant education and professional experience. EDO would work best for you, maybe INTEL (though they really want analyst types), CEC, and AEDO/AMDO, depending on what type of engineering you do.

To give what little perspective I can give, my background is in computer science and computer engineering. I wouldn't be a fit for, say, Supply or PAO because I have nothing to do with that. I wouldn't even be a fit for IPO or CWO because they really want IT network or security folks. I'm a software dev and that's not relevant enough as far as they're concerned. It's not impossible, but I'm very much at a disadvantage compared to a career infosec guy with a bunch of DoDD 8570 approved IT certifications.

How the heck did you finish your package in a few weeks? That's really impressive. It took me a couple months just to nudge people to do letters of rec haha.

Also the submission deadline was in May. How did your OR submit your package the day before the board convened? That's interesting.

Thank you Sculpin, I am very impressed by your answers!
Question:
1) Do you have any idea/ guess on when we will hear back?
2) Does anyone know when the next board/ next deadline is?

1) I have no idea lol. 2-3 weeks?
2) It should be around December. There's 2 boards a year unless something changed.

 

[Chance_EDO]

I am also applying. Take a look at that echo chamber 10th page from the thread I linked.

One is all that's really required and 3 is the maximum. Because you're applying to the "unicorn" board, they may (I'm just theorizing here) overlook you didn't interview with 3 Admirals and Secretary of Defense Mattis or whatever the crazy expectations are for the IWC board.

I think your chances are a lot better than mine. My GPA, appraisals, motivational statement, etc. are very strong. But the thing is, I'm only 27. Sure any colleague will tell you I operate well above my experience and title in a cut-throat tech corporation, but I don't believe the selection board will know or understand what that entails. Years of experience is a big deal to my understanding for the DCO boards.

Edit: Oops, I misread. I applied for the June 2018 board (the one that convened last week).

Here's a major difference between OCS and DCO applications. With OCS, you can apply to most things which some kind of STEM degree. OCS is meant for people straight out of college anyways, and they mostly look at GPA/OAR. Even designators strongly preferring specific engineering/technology majors, you'll find social science / humanities majors getting selected for them sometimes.

However, DCO is a completely different story. You have to apply to a designator where you have relevant education and professional experience. EDO would work best for you, maybe INTEL (though they really want analyst types), CEC, and AEDO/AMDO, depending on what type of engineering you do.

To give what little perspective I can give, my background is in computer science and computer engineering. I wouldn't be a fit for, say, Supply or PAO because I have nothing to do with that. I wouldn't even be a fit for IPO or CWO because they really want IT network or security folks. I'm a software dev and that's not relevant enough as far as they're concerned. It's not impossible, but I'm very much at a disadvantage compared to a career infosec guy with a bunch of DoDD 8570 approved IT certifications.

How the heck did you finish your package in a few weeks? That's really impressive. It took me a couple months just to nudge people to do letters of rec haha.

Also the submission deadline was in May. How did your OR submit your package the day before the board convened? That's interesting.



1) I have no idea lol. 2-3 weeks?
2) It should be around December. There's 2 boards a year unless something changed.

Hey Sculpin,

I saw your summary you listed on your profile and it’s very impressive to say the least! We both actually have the same background/ education/ Masters degree.

My regret is I was so busy and slammed with work that I was literally working on finishing my packet up to the absolute last day. My OR and Chief were amazing.

However, it still doesn’t absolve the fact that my packet could have been stellar if I had more time and finished it in advance like you did.
May I ask how was your process in finishing your packet? Was it easier since you had months to slowly tackle it?

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Ah, a fellow code monkey, I presume?

I'm sure you know the expression "hurry up and wait". That was like 98% of the time in the process. I had my resume ready and cranked out the motivational statement in a day in February (a few tweaks here and there following some feedback and my own review). It was really quick.

The SF86 was a major pain, especially since the NASIS form is so badly designed and there's unnecessary form validation everywhere. I couldn't even add a record for my dad since I don't know where he lives.

There was a good 8.5 hours at MEPS. Being the "old man" at MEPS with a lot of 18 year-olds was a bit nerve-wracking, and having to piss in a cup for the sole purpose of getting checked for drugs when you don't have to piss at all was a little worrying. There was a lot of prodding over 2 months to get people to do the letters of recommendation, and half of them simply refused.

I had a lot of waiting and hunting down EDOs for interviews and appraisals. My OR and an active duty officer friend helped me out quite a bit, as my own efforts did not go so greatly despite going so far to find and contact people on LinkedIn. I am of course very thankful.

And oh yeah, all the signatures. Yeesh. Having to initial every row on multiple copies of the DD 2807 was fun .

I'm a bit bummed DCO selectees go to DCOIC rather than OCS, but I'm told (and this is these OCS graduates' own opinions) OCS has a lot of fluff. Even the Air Force managed to cut down their OTS from 13 weeks to 9 weeks, and to my knowledge that hasn't been a problem. Still, the difference between OCS and DCOIC is a good 10 weeks (12 weeks vs 2 weeks), which is immense. If the expectation is lots of self-learning, that's not a problem for me. DCO applicants are never people fresh out of college who generally don't have any real world experience, but tend to be experienced professionals in their 30s. They're already experienced, educated, and disciplined. I can certainly say many people in the tech industry, one of the fastest-paced, most cut-throat industries out there, working as software or electrical engineers especially, are masters of dealing with difficult people and difficult problems (technical and political).

 

[Chance_EDO]

Ah, a fellow code monkey, I presume?

I'm sure you know the expression "hurry up and wait". That was like 98% of the time in the process. I had my resume ready and cranked out the motivational statement in a day in February (a few tweaks here and there following some feedback and my own review). It was really quick.

The SF86 was a major pain, especially since the NASIS form is so badly designed and there's unnecessary form validation everywhere. I couldn't even add a record for my dad since I don't know where he lives.

There was a good 8.5 hours at MEPS. Being the "old man" at MEPS with a lot of 18 year-olds was a bit nerve-wracking, and having to piss in a cup for the sole purpose of getting checked for drugs when you don't have to piss at all was a little worrying. There was a lot of prodding over 2 months to get people to do the letters of recommendation, and half of them simply refused.

I had a lot of waiting and hunting down EDOs for interviews and appraisals. My OR and an active duty officer friend helped me out quite a bit, as my own efforts did not go so greatly despite going so far to find and contact people on LinkedIn. I am of course very thankful.

And oh yeah, all the signatures. Yeesh. Having to initial every row on multiple copies of the DD 2807 was fun .

I'm a bit bummed DCO selectees go to DCOIC rather than OCS, but I'm told (and this is these OCS graduates' own opinions) OCS has a lot of fluff. Even the Air Force managed to cut down their OTS from 13 weeks to 9 weeks, and to my knowledge that hasn't been a problem. Still, the difference between OCS and DCOIC is a good 10 weeks (12 weeks vs 2 weeks), which is immense. If the expectation is lots of self-learning, that's not a problem for me. DCO applicants are never people fresh out of college who generally don't have any real world experience, but tend to be experienced professionals in their 30s. They're already experienced, educated, and disciplined. I can certainly say many people in the tech industry, one of the fastest-paced, most cut-throat industries out there, working as software or electrical engineers especially, are masters of dealing with difficult people and difficult problems (technical and political).

Hey Sculpin,

WOW! You went through the same pain points that I did. We share similar experiences in the process, namely:

1) The Resume and the LOR was the easiest: it took me a day to update it and I asked a few VP’s at my work for a LOR and they said yes.
2) The Motivational Statement was tougher— I wrote it several ways before cutting to the chase and just introducing myself and my skills.
3) The OR was excellent in telling me where to sign for the DD2807 (literally, sign clearly on every line)
4) Transcripts: this took time and lots of effort/ emails/ phone calls
5) MEPS made me feel old lol. I’m hw proportionate but the 18 year old lanky kids there were a good 30-40 pounds less than me.
I did participate in the Army Future Soldier program with kids like that and those kids beat me in the shuttle run.
So, I guess gotta get my weight down 40 pounds to be competitive on their level for cardio.
6) NASIS. This was honestly the most difficult and time consuming part. The website took hours and hours of my time to fill out a multitude of sections. I had the same exact thing for the family member section as I don’t have contact with one of them. As such, I “get it” when you say that the interface is not user friendly.

Question:
How did you go about with your motivational statement?
How did you position or presented your candidacy to the board?

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

1) I don't have it on me at the moment and haven't looked at it in quite a while, but I stressed my personal motivations for joining the Navy, dedication/selflessness to family in difficult times, professional leadership and management I've done and making a point that this is extraordinary in an industry where people aren't managing jack until they're much more experienced, lifelong interest in military and military technology, and some other things slipping my mind. It was long, like 1200-1300 words.

2) Do you mean in my motivational statement? I stressed certain strengths and experiences and tied them into being a good officer candidate. Also on my resume, I removed the irrelevant stuff (technical languages/frameworks I use as that's for software job applications) and added in a section for current activities, eg. occasional volunteering for a couple nonprofits and running a massive employee network at work. I didn't put past activities or random hobbies (reading, gym-going, hiking, etc.) because it would be superfluous, wouldn't add value, and it would make my resume substantially longer.

I lucked out with transcripts. Both my universities at some point in the last few years implemented a process for requesting and receiving it online. No cost, no phone calls, no mailing, no going to campus, etc.

I'm impressed you know the VPs at your company, that's awesome. Maybe it's because I'm at a big corporation, but you need to be in a position/title you only get to if you're very lucky at some point in your 40s or 50s before you'd be on any professional basis with VPs here. I know a (now former) executive, but he's never worked with me and I didn't feel a LOR would have any value from him (assuming he found the time to write one).

 

[Chance_EDO]

1) I don't have it on me at the moment and haven't looked at it in quite a while, but I stressed my personal motivations for joining the Navy, dedication/selflessness to family in difficult times, professional leadership and management I've done and making a point that this is extraordinary in an industry where people aren't managing jack until they're much more experienced, lifelong interest in military and military technology, and some other things slipping my mind. It was long, like 1200-1300 words.

Do you mean in my motivational statement? I stressed certain strengths and experiences and tied them into being a good officer candidate. Also on my resume, I removed the irrelevant stuff (technical languages/frameworks I use as that's for software job applications) and added in a section for current activities, eg. occasional volunteering for a couple nonprofits and running a massive employee network at work. I didn't put past activities or random hobbies (reading, gym-going, hiking, etc.) because it would be superfluous, wouldn't add value, and it would make my resume substantially longer.
I'm impressed you know the VPs at your company, that's awesome. Maybe it's because I'm at a big corporation, but you need to be in a position/title you only get to if you're very lucky at some point in your 40s or 50s before you'd be on any professional basis with VPs here. I know a (now former) executive, but he's never worked with me and I didn't feel a LOR would have any value from him (assuming he found the time to write one).

1) Application/ Motivational Statement
Wow. You really planned your application and statement-- I think you knocked it out of the park being so prepared.
As mentioned, I got my packet all rushed together in a few weeks. I wish I found this forum earlier. I made a couple of mistakes.

2) Resume
I'm impressed again! I think you strategized a bit here to be thoughtful of their time and presenting your best foot forward.
I'm embarassed to say my OR actually assisted me to re-write parts of my resume so it was clearer to outsiders.
My OR really was excellent and I wouldn't have made it without my OR's assistance.

3) LORs
I work for a Fortune 100 company (very, very large company). Have you reached out to your veteran's network? I reached out to my company's veterans network and told them of my goal to serve my country in the Middle East with the Army.
In a week, I ended up getting letters from the 2 Vice Presidents and 2 Asst Vice Presidents of my company. They were very nice and told me about the weather in the Middle East.

Question:
1) how did you explain your lack of military service in your application?
2) After seeing the discouraging selection stats on this forum, I don't think realistically think I have a good chance (<10%).
I think I am probably up against PhDs and really exceptional Master's candidates who are also Navy Seals/ Professors/ Special Warfare plus they have PE certifications.
So, I am already planning to apply for the next board. Have you thought about what your chances are for this board?

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Hah, I did reach out to them. The guy who runs the veterans employee network and is the POC ignored me. Then a friend who's in the ARNG contacted him and got ignored. Then a former officer friend did so and also got ignored.

1) There was no need to mention it. I did mention in my motivational statement it was my goal following college, but I had to take care of family. It also meant I couldn't go wherever I wanted for work. There were some juicy offers/opportunities from a few Fortune 50 (if that's a thing) companies when I was finishing up grad school. Things have loosened up quite a bit for me in the last year though.

2) In the civilian world, PE licensing is for civil engineers, maybe also some mechanical, power, and chemical engineers. It's irrelevant to the tech industry and especially software. Yes I know the Program Authorization talks about EIT/PE, but apparently according to senior officers I've talked to there aren't many in the EDO community. It's one of those things that will help of course, but if anyone in the Navy thinks a software dev needs a EIT or PE, they're not acquainted with the reality of the matter.

Like I mentioned in a post earlier, if you have lots of work experience and your cumulative GPA is good, then you're basically in. Because everyone and their mother can apply for INTEL, for example, it's a lot more crazy than EDO where you need to be a unicorn just to be able to apply, and there aren't many unicorns around.

 

[Chance_EDO]

Hah, I did reach out to them. The guy who runs the veterans employee network and is the POC ignored me. Then a friend who's in the ARNG contacted him and got ignored. Then a former officer friend did so and also got ignored.

1) Wow. That is terrible about the Veterans Network guy. Do you think it is because he is very busy?
Also were your friends contacting him on your behalf?

2) I was curious but would an OR submit a person for an EDO role if they are not a good fit?
I keep thinking about some weak points in my overall application and wonder if my OR does some "pre-selection" before doing all that work for submitting the packet in (and sending me to MEPS and arranging my interview).

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

Probably busy, but he's also laid off now. They were contacting him on my behalf, and they also knew him personally. He was extremely active with the employee network so I don't know what the deal was.

A good OR should know who's got a good chance at what.

 

[Chance_EDO]

Probably busy, but he's also laid off now. They were contacting him on my behalf, and they also knew him personally. He was extremely active with the employee network so I don't know what the deal was.

A good OR should know who's got a good chance at what.

1) Oh wow. I'm sorry about your experience with thet Veterans Network guy. Maybe he was busy job searching since he was going to be laid off? That's bad that he ignored others who also reached out to him.
Everyone from my ex (who served in the Middle East) to my manager is supportive of me serving and has been helpful.

2) I'll ask my OR when I see him this week what he thinks my chances are. He always says it's good but I don't really know after reading and combing through these forums.....it is better to be humble and realistic.

3) Have you thought how competitive your region is? (Does the region matter?)
I live near a major university that attracts scientist and engineers from around the world for their MS and PhD programs.
They also have a Armed Forces Career Center on campus. I'm pretty sure that there are a good number of the graduate students wanting this too (since they can serve on a part time basis while finishing their PhD and get college paid for).
A lot of graduate students walk by the Armed Forces Career Center office everyday....probably hundreds of graduate students.
I have seen them give out free stuff to recruit the students population ALL the time.

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

I have brought up a number of my times with my OR that I'm too young (I needed a waiver for my only 4.5 years of work experience in my field, which probably isn't a good sign), but the response always is I have a great application. Everyone else in the Navy who's had a look at my application says the same, but I still have my doubts.

A very, very tiny percentage of those graduate students you refer to have any interest in the military at all, and depending on the field only a minority of them are even US citizens. Think about it. Less than 1% of the population is in the military and overwhelmingly enlisted. Also people still in college aren't remotely competitive for DCO programs (especially EDO) unless they were working for a long time in their field and then decided to go back to school. There is no need to exaggerate the quantity of applicants (or who is even eligible). As I said, the last EDO DCO board had 14-15 applicants. For reasons I don't fully understand, the Navy Reserve officer accession program is substantially more competitive for selection than its parallel accession programs for the ARNG, Army Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, though I'm not entirely sure about ANG and AF Reserve which attract lots of smart people.

 

[Chance_EDO]

I have brought up a number of my times with my OR that I'm too young (I needed a waiver for my only 4.5 years of work experience in my field, which probably isn't a good sign), but the response always is I have a great application. Everyone else in the Navy who's had a look at my application says the same, but I still have my doubts.

A very, very tiny percentage of those graduate students you refer to have any interest in the military at all, and depending on the field only a minority of them are even US citizens. Think about it. Less than 1% of the population is in the military and overwhelmingly enlisted. Also people still in college aren't remotely competitive for DCO programs (especially EDO) unless they were working for a long time in their field and then decided to go back to school. There is no need to exaggerate the quantity of applicants (or who is even eligible). As I said, the last EDO DCO board had 14-15 applicants. For reasons I don't fully understand, the Navy Reserve officer accession program is substantially more competitive for selection than its parallel accession programs for the ARNG, Army Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, though I'm not entirely sure about ANG and AF Reserve which attract lots of smart people.

Hi Sculpin

Thanks for the informative answers. I don't think you have anything to worry about...

1) I took a look at your stats again and it is very impressive! Here's why I think you'd get in. You "check" all the boxes.
Engineering undergrad ( check)
Engineering grad degree ( check)
5 years work experience ( check -- you almost have 5 years & a waiver)
PE license ( not applicable to us in the field of software engineering)

Plus you were organized and got it in months before. I think you have better chances than me.

2) Well on my end, I don't have an engineering undergrad so do you think it is a disqualifier?
It is in Communication (Linguistics) and International Studies.

3) Are you sure the board takes 12 people a year? (6 people per each board since they meet 2x a year)
That's a lot. I heard most others fields only take 4-6 people (not to mention, they have hundreds applying).

 

[Deleted member 67144 scul]

If Rufio says my chances are "slim to none", and he has no incentive to uplift people or make them feel good, I'm going to keep that in mind. Things can go in a number of ways, especially considering appraisals and motivational statements are VERY important for DCO. A great motivational statement and great appraisal write-ups can make your application happen even if you don't have LORs from Senators and whatever other unusual and extraordinary resources some people have access to.

not applicable to us in the field of software engineering

The people in the Navy responsible for reviewing and selection may or may not know that. In my own experience, no one I've come across in the Navy knows that, or they don't know what EIT / PE are. But as I said it's not very common in the EDO community and they know better anyways. Shouldn't be a concern.

I was actually studying for the EIT (ie. relearning lots of math I forgot how to do) until my job hit me with 70 hour work weeks again.

Well on my end, I don't have an engineering undergrad so do you think it is a disqualifier?
It is in Communication (Linguistics) and International Studies.

That's something you need to ask your OR. If we only go by Program Authorization 203, maybe not?

I don't know where or how the Navy makes exceptions. However, when the Navy sets minimum requirements, it appears to be law except in cases where waivers may be acquired. For example, prior enlisted can often get age waivers.

Are you sure the board takes 12 people a year?

I said 12 in the last board, out of 14 or 15. Not in the last year. The note for the 2-3 non-selects was not having completed an "advanced technical degree" or something like that.

Also, I have no idea how competitive my region is. I just know it's densely populated and includes tons of Naval assets.

 

[Chance_EDO]

If Rufio says my chances are "slim to none", and he has no incentive to uplift people or make them feel good, I'm going to keep that in mind. Things can go in a number of ways, especially considering appraisals and motivational statements are VERY important for DCO. A great motivational statement and great appraisal write-ups can make your application happen even if you don't have LORs from Senators and whatever other unusual and extraordinary resources some people have access to.

Sculpin,
Are you sure?? Your application checks all the boxes! What thread did he say that? Maybe he meant it for someone else?
I know the threads can get confusing after reading them for a while, so maybe it was meant for another person.

That's something you need to ask your OR. If we only go by Program Authorization 203, maybe not?
I don't know where or how the Navy makes exceptions. However, when the Navy sets minimum requirements, it appears to be law except in cases where waivers may be acquired. For example, prior enlisted can often get age waivers.

Oh no. I guess I am screwed. I will ask my OR when I see them again tomorrow. I prefer the hard truth especially since this is the unicorn board.
By the way, some people said they got "10" in their interviews. I can't get my score except it "was good". Do you know yours?

I said 12 in the last board, out of 14 or 15. Not in the last year. The note for the 2-3 non-selects was not having completed an "advanced technical degree" or something like that.

Hey Sculpin, thanks for this knowledge. With them hiring so many (12 is far, far more than many other boards), don't you think the Navy is going to end up with an oversupply of DCO officers? I wonder what will happen. There probably will not be enough work for them.