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Gen. Stanley McChrystal: on the job market soon ... ???

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
By "incorrect/misleading" I am referring to what the mainstream media puts out, not what the military puts out. I fully realize that the military does not control the media, and can't do whatever it wants to do as far as putting news out. And that is the way it should be. It sounds like you have worked in the PAO field - this is the fault of the PAOs - they are just following policy.

I see your point there. Mainstream news media in their quest to be first with headline news whether it be in print or the even more competitive TV/Cable markets that update news sometimes twice in a 30 minute timeframe (CNN, FOX, MSNNBC, etc), go with what they have at the moment even if it's less than full story. Government/military will always lag because they have to get it right and confirm details although sometimes, but not often, they wait to see what the half-life of a story will be because they'd rather it be supplanted by the next hot story than fuel the fire. Regardless of the case if it's that big a deal, and even worse, if there have been casualties, the government puts priority on notification of next of kin before releasing names. I'd rather see news media back off to let due process take place, but that will never happen because of intense competitive to break news first and scoop each other with details.

I'll always remember my literal first day on the job as editor of Approach (job included being PAO for Safety Center) and AIRLANT PAO calling asking me to go with him to A-6E crash site on Oceana Blvd because it was so accessible that all the news networks were rolling their mobile trucks to the scene and he needed help keeping them at bay. It became a classic media "public right to know" vs "military need to know" standoff, but we had sufficient security to block off the road in both directions, but that didn't stop them from trying to penetrate the cordon.

The A-6E Intruder was heading to Puerto Rico with 5 external tanks as I recall so it was heavy and pilot overbanked on departure, which resulted in a descent into the ground. Both aircrew did not survive ejections that were out of envelope (seat man separation did not occur) and the aircraft flattened a station wagon to pancake height when it slammed into ground. So there we were with one ejection seat on road still occupied with deceased B/N and the pilot shredded in a treeline 50 yds away and a smoking trail of partially burned fuel from one side of the road to the treeline and a barely recognizable car in its path with no survivors.

It was early enough in afternoon that we got the news anchor from one network already in studio makeup at one checkpoint with mike in hand. An camera would come up anytime someone in uniform could be corraled or summoned her way. Then the games started as deadlines approached for evening news and editors were pressing them for video and soundbites. One camera crew was caught trying to flank the cordon by going into trees to get a shot of the ejection seat and aviator in that area. Then we noticed the mast/antenna on one truck going down and going back up with a camera mounted on it, which would allow them line of shot to shot the car and other aviator (we made them back down the road and erected a cloth curtain around both deceased victims). Then another anchor said it was imperative that he transit the mishap scene to other end of raod to join up with his crew stuck on other side (he promised not to look at anything or turn on his camera...a likely story, but nice try and he admitted it).

We did a roundtable later with all the involved media to discuss issues and they held fast that it was their job in the media to report news and satisfy the public's need to know what was transpiring. I don't doubt that, but I do take issue whether they have to do it before facts are sorted out and on time for their next broadcast.

There have been numerous times over the past 10 years where the government (it's certainly not just the military, it's also the State Dept) have been later in releasing information about events than the media has been. This lets the media put their spin on it, most is disproportionately anti-U.S./anti-military. With the instant communications available, the24/7 news coverage, the news on the war gets out - it would be far better for the government (both civilian and military) to get the accurate version out first. It is going to get out anyway - they can't keep things under wraps anymore.

Without specific instances, I couldn't agree or disagree to that broad statement, but like I said. Govt statements have legal ramifications (yep, JAGs interject into ROE and even press statements). I'd rather hear the truth delayed as process sorts itself out and always take initial press reports with a grain of salt because I've seen them work on numerous accasions including watching an event and listening to reporters do their on the scene taping of what they saw sometimes with editors whispering in their ears how to spin it.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
....The A-6E Intruder was heading to Puerto Rico with 5 external tanks ... overbanked on departure ...
1986 or 1987 ??? If it's the one I'm thinking of -- his wife later filed suit against Grumman (of course: follow the $$$$) for @$150M for something like 'product liability' or 'negligent design' ...

I've always been of the impression that overbankin' a heavy bird @ 300' AGL and then ejecting into the ground will usually void all manufacturers warranties ...

/McChrystal threadjack.
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
1986 or 1987 ??? If it's the one I'm thinking of -- his wife later filed suit against Grumman (of course: follow the $$$$) for @$150M for something like 'product liability' or 'negligent design' ...

I've always been of the impression that overbankin' a heavy bird @ 300' AGL and then ejecting into the ground will usually void all manufacturers warranties ...

/McChrystal threadjack.

yep, May 23, 1986
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
1986 or 1987 ??? If it's the one I'm thinking of -- his wife later filed suit against Grumman (of course: follow the $$$$) for @$150M for something like 'product liability' or 'negligent design' ...

Out of my own curiosity I found a handful of indirect references to the mishap- This link from the local paper mentions the mishap although it makes a mistake with the date:

http://media.hamptonroads.com/images/special/OceanaEncroachment.pdf


/McChrystal threadjack.
:)
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Eliot Cohen's caution against drawing reductive morality tales from this war or the McChrystal episode ...
Good article; worth the read -- but 'reductive morality tales' :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol: ... com'on, now ... who talks like that???

Answer: no one.
:)

But even if you searched high & low and managed to find such a wonk -- he would certainly not be a Marine ...
he'd be in academia, the media, or at the State Department.

NOT a 'real' person ...
:)
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Out of my own curiosity I found a handful of indirect references to the mishap- 22 May 85 seems to be the likely date. Here is one of those references:

http://media.hamptonroads.com/images/special/OceanaEncroachment.pdf:)



Ahem, as I said in earlier post, I was on the crash site for hours and since I reported to Safety Center in May of 1986 after Eldorado Canyon, no way it occured in 1985.

Note: I'll grant you that there are several variances in days of week (22 vs 23 May) on the Google search, but I was still in VF-102 in 1985 so that is HIGHLY and impossibly likely.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Ahem, as I said in earlier post, I was on the crash site for hours and since I reported to Safety Center in May of 1986 after Eldorado Canyon, no way it occured in 1985.

I wrote my reply to A4s' post before I read your post but I didn't intend to come across as contradictory on a sensitive subject. (I've edited my own post since then.)

I apologize for my blunder. PM sent.
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
Hmmm, the "velvet hammer." (If it turns out this way.)
 

Sapper!

Excuse the BS...
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/...cchrystal-cleared-in-pentagon-inquiry-041811/


So did he or did he not do anything wrong? I know we hashed this out ad nauseam some months ago - but this IG report kinda muddies the water...?

Well to be technical about it they relieved him of his duty so he obviously did "something wrong" and the administration got out from under the heat that the RS article had the potential to bring to them. Whether he did anything wrong or not they are keeping him around, which is how things seem to work up there, you can't do much wrong really. Don't pay taxes...not a big deal, here is a job. Lie through your teeth and take campaign contributions from illegal sources...it's ok we forgive you, here is a job. etc etc.

My opinion? This is awesome, if anyone deserves to stay around in some capacity, it is Stan the Man. Guy has a hell of alot more invested in this country than his political counterparts on the hill, so if they need him to do something, he can damn well get it done.

So I don't think it muddies the water to speak, its just too muddy in washington already. Unless you are saying that him having a job again means he wasn't guilty in the first place, which I don't think that is being implied here. He just got another job.
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/...cchrystal-cleared-in-pentagon-inquiry-041811/


So did he or did he not do anything wrong? I know we hashed this out ad nauseam some months ago - but this IG report kinda muddies the water...?

He bad mouthed the boss (well his staff did) publicly.
In any line of work, if you insult your boss, you can expect to be fired.

The IG investigation was tied to "did he break the UCMJ" type of issues.
Since he wasn't quoted as saying anything negative, he was cleared of wrong doing.
While at the same time, his staff was insulting the President; therefore the President fired him.

So, what I guess he did wrong was he didn't stop his staff for making personal comments about our national leadership.
 
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