GUARD to the US-Mexico Border ???

[Steve Wilkins]

You figure it out ... and read up on Posse Comitatus.

For a quick and dirty treatise without reading a whole book ... try:

http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm

That's a decent starting point but there is a hell of a lot more to it than that. People routinely try mount their defense against the use of troops in law enforcement matters by simply citing the phrase "Posse Comitatus." Like A4's said, you really need to read up on it. However, just make sure you understand its context when you do. And for that, you'll need to get into the history of the events leading up to the act itself to really understand what is going on.

 

[Fly Navy]

Question: When did guarding the boarder... a national security idea... turn into a law enforcement idea?

 

[HAL Pilot]

Actually, if they are deployed by the state and not the federal government, the National Guard can conduct law enforcement when ordered to by the Govenor.

I did this on the slopes of Mount St. Hellens in May 1980 as a member of the Washington National Guard.

 

[Brett327]

Actually, if they are deployed by the state and not the federal government, the National Guard can conduct law enforcement when ordered to by the Govenor.

I did this on the slopes of Mount St. Hellens in May 1980 as a member of the Washington National Guard.

Did you ever have to wrestle that old geezer Harry Truman? I remember that day - we got ash 300 miles away in Southern Oregon. [/end jack]

Brett

 

[TXHusker05]

Question: When did guarding the boarder... a national security idea... turn into a law enforcement idea?

When people started coming across it illegally, when people smuggling started getting out of control. After watching CNN earlier, it is clear why the US Border Patrol has troubling doing their job, their primary focus is drug smuggling and terrorism. That is all fine and dandy but illegal immigration took a back burner. I think all three are in the same category. Whether it be National Security or even a problem with the economy. I heard something about a Sheriff in Oregon sending a bill to the Mexican government for all of the illegal immigrants that he has to house, feed and take care of in his jail. It is a good point.

Sending the National Guard to "guard" the borders is fine. Put them on the fenceline and give them orders to not let someone cross is perfect. But once they do cross, the Guard can't do a damn thing about it until a law enforcement officer has gotten there. So to answer your question, guarding the border is still a national security issue... but once people get across it is a legal issue as well as a national security issue.

 

[Fly Navy]

When people started coming across it illegally, when people smuggling started getting out of control.

A foreign army crossing the border is illegal too. Once they cross, they're here illegally, so I guess the police should take care of it. See the stupidity of that argument? (Not yours specifically, I mean in general)

 

[A4sForever]

Did you ever have to wrestle that old geezer Harry Truman?

For the uninitiated .... most probably not ... ... as the unbelievably profane Harry and his cats were last seen giving the middle finger (or paw) to Mt. St. Helen's just as she belched on him and them ...

​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Harry Truman –- and his 16 cats -– refused to leave home at the base of Mount St. Helens before the eruption. The 83-year-old operated a lucrative lodge on Spirit Lake.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica](May 10, 2000)[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Credit: Associated Press

[Threadjack ... OUT]
[/FONT]

 

[TXHusker05]

Oh don't get me wrong, I completely agree with your point but I guess I am trying to rationalize it from the other point of view. If it were up to me, the Guard would have been there by now in force.

I mean most of us have seen the videos of corrupt Mexican Army personnel crossing the border protecting whichever drug cartel is paying them. The Border Patrol can't do a thing against a small unit of Mexican Army with assault rifles. The National Guard could cure that problem in a second.

Or we could do it the Carlos Mencia way, have all the illegal immigrants build a wall along the border, when it is done... have them go across and see what the other side looks like and slam the door behind them.

 

[squorch2]

Well, if you're going to militarize the border, how far do you go? Berlin Wall style shoot-on-sight? Less-than-lethal weaponry? Korea style DMZ?

Also... everything I'm reading says that any Guard presence would be temporary and that they would defer to the Border Patrol in most instances. So... what's the point of bringing them there if you're going to just pull them back out in December?

 

[batman527]

Well, if you're going to militarize the border, how far do you go? Berlin Wall style shoot-on-sight? Less-than-lethal weaponry? Korea style DMZ?

Also... everything I'm reading says that any Guard presence would be temporary and that they would defer to the Border Patrol in most instances. So... what's the point of bringing them there if you're going to just pull them back out in December?

Patching the holes until the Border Patrol get's enough manpower to fill the gaps themselves. All of this is working under the assumption that the government actually wants to stop the flow of illegals. Considering what's gone on so far, I'm not sure that this assumption is correct.

 

[Brett327]

Well, if you're going to militarize the border, how far do you go? Berlin Wall style shoot-on-sight? Less-than-lethal weaponry? Korea style DMZ?

Also... everything I'm reading says that any Guard presence would be temporary and that they would defer to the Border Patrol in most instances. So... what's the point of bringing them there if you're going to just pull them back out in December?

One guess - something that happens in November.

Brett

 

[squorch2]

One guess - something that happens in November.

Brett

Yeah, it was a rhetorical question, I suppose - hence the choice of December as the pull-out month.

 

[Fly Navy]

pull-out month.

I'm gonna leave that one alone...

 

[squorch2]

C'mon, it was a softball!

 

[Birdman]

I know this has been mentioned earlier, but no one really addressed it. Patroling the border would be a 24/7 job for the Guard. As a one weekend a month, two week a year force, would the national guard be the ideal choice for border security? Would we activate them to the U.S/Mexican Border and count it as a deployment on yearly rotations like in Iraq? I think it would make more sense to use active army units.