• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

H-1 Upgrade Full Rate Production decision deferred

HeyJoe

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Ken Krieg, DoD Undersecretary for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics did not approve the H-1 Upgrade program for full rate production in 2007 and instead opted to continue the program at low-rate initial production deferring full-rate production until fiscal year 2008.
 
B

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
Krieg's replacement comes from the blue side, so I would be curious to see if he has a different opinion.
 
ChuckMK23

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
USMC will be sucking seriously at the rate things are going for the UH-1N -

Skid should weigh in on this....
 
phrogdriver

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
This program has had a lot of problems. I wouldn't be surprised if a "DAP"-equipped H-60 variant, similar to TF-160, is being thrown around as a replacement for both H-1s. Maybe even a compound-helo variant that could come close to keeping up with an Osprey! :icon_wink
 
ChuckMK23

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
Wouldn't that be a great idea!

Seriously though - It seems like the MH-60S might serve as a good direct replacement for the UH-1N - with not a whole lot of mods.

So is the AH-1Z pretty much on target?
 
B

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
Every now and then USMC's head of aviation snoops around the Sierra's down at Pax. We've always thought he is just poking at the Bell folks, but I guess you never know.
 
phrogdriver

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
The H-60 alternative was originally competitive for the Huey replacement. This is what I got from media accounts. Since DoD already buys a lot of 60s, the savings in per unit costs DoD-wide (the bulk discount) by expanding the buy for the Corps would have been substantial. However, the Corps would not have seen any of that savings, so it went with the upgrade program that cost it less.
 
HeyJoe

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
phrogdriver said:
The H-60 alternative was originally competitive for the Huey replacement. This is what I got from media accounts. Since DoD already buys a lot of 60s, the savings in per unit costs DoD-wide (the bulk discount) by expanding the buy for the Corps would have been substantial. However, the Corps would not have seen any of that savings, so it went with the upgrade program that cost it less.
Click to expand...

At the time that decision was made, the program was called 4BN/BW (4 bladed November/Whiskey) and it was to be an upgrade to existing airframes, not new builds. Upgrading was shown to be less expensive than new production 60 variants AND the purpose of the 4BN/BW program was to finally achieve a lot of commonality between the two airframes so that the ACE would have an easier logistics footprint and maint support (the program shares common engines, transmission, avionics and rotors). Adopting the 60 would introduce yet another platform when and at the time and now, the idea was to ram down the type/model/series aircraft operating by Naval Aviation in genral and in the Marines Corps specifically.

Note: the MH-60R/S program was also to have included upgrading existing platforms for some of the airframes, but it was found that older airframes operating in saltwater environment had some ugliness going on when they started opening them up. Same thing happened in H-1 Upgrades (hence the name "Upgrades" as it transitioned from 4BN/BW name) and the program had to reconsider option of new production as labor to recondition the airframes made new production a better option (also has better airframe life potential if you can afford it).
 
Gatordev

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Another interesting theoretical piece to this puzzle is that when the idea of the ESG was being sold, the HSL side said that they needed very little support from the Gator, unlike the carrier. Now that there's -60s (little "s") on the LHx, and with the potential for having more onboard w/ the Marines, seems like this would be a logistics win for everyone to a point.
 
ChuckMK23

ChuckMK23

FERS and TSP contributor!
pilot
gatordev said:
Well duh! Because liquids don't compress and you get better ground effect over water. Honestly, it's simple physics.

Smiles and all that.
Click to expand...

OEI envelope requirements with pax over water?

Is that NATOPS/OPNAV? Squadron SOP?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top