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H-60 HA/DR capability question
- Thread starter BigIron
- Start date
It's my secret ploy to make guys hate leaving the cockpit even more than they already do!
Edit: I originally replied to your post but then I just ended up rambling...
For official definitions for all the different missions, may I recommend for your casual reading; http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/new_pubs/jp1_02.pdf
Everyone, I appreciate your responses! A couple of more questions if any of you joint warriors know the answers. I've taken JMO, but have no experience in setting up the planning for these missions.
Does anyone know how these HA/DR missions get tasked as far as chain of command? For Foreign HA/DR, who tasks the DoD? - NCA? I understand from there on down it's DoD -> CoCom -> CJTF -> tasked units. How does DOS or USAID come into play here?
What about for operations in NORTHCOM AOR? How does Homeland Security / FEMA come into play for natural disaster relief provided by DoD units?
Any thoughts?
Does anyone know how these HA/DR missions get tasked as far as chain of command? For Foreign HA/DR, who tasks the DoD? - NCA? I understand from there on down it's DoD -> CoCom -> CJTF -> tasked units. How does DOS or USAID come into play here?
What about for operations in NORTHCOM AOR? How does Homeland Security / FEMA come into play for natural disaster relief provided by DoD units?
Any thoughts?
For FHA, the Ambassador needs to send a request to DOS requesting DOD support. SECSTATE and SECDEF coord the details from there with POTUS approval.
At the same time, Local military commanders have the authority to act autonomously to "save lives". In the real world while the DOS/DOD formal blessing is in work, the Geographic Combatant Commander will launch a Humanitarian Assistance Survey Team (HAST) to start getting SA from the local area. If the HAST deploys, they will work with the DOS equivalent called a DART. They will usually start at the Embassy but then move out to the affected area quickly. The DART is a USAID/OFDA group, so they work for the Ambassador. The HAST work for the GCC but check-in with the Ambassador and then coord with the DART during the assessment.
If there is a local military commander then he can start conducting ops to save lives while waiting for formal permission. For an example, think of what would NAVCENT do if something happened in Bahrain? C5F will start helping out until he is told to stop or given formal blessing.
For planning purposes, you can figure around 72 hours before you'll told to stand down or given formal blessing to continue operations. You can assume that the Ambassador and the local military commander have sat down and discussed what support DOD will give while waiting for approval in the event something were to happen. For example, if security is spotty, will DOD troops leave their bases armed or not? Will we treat foreign nationals in DOD medical facilities on base? They may seem like minor issues, but the last thing you want is to either over-promise or start doing something to help but later say you can't do whatever it was anymore.
I was briefing the Ambassador to Qatar as a member of a JTF under the CENTAF commander and when I discussed the doctrinal permissions the DOD had until receiving blessings from back in D.C., the the Ambassador looked at the 3 star and says, "General, just do what you think needs to be done; I'll handle the paperwork."
For DSCA the official procedure is the Governor of a state calls D.C. and asks for a declaration of a disaster and requests federal assistance. Pre-Katrina the USG could do nothing until the Governor asked for help and the federal gov't declared the disaster.
Once the request comes in, the President tasks DHS to support. DHS owns FEMA so they are the Lead Federal Agency.
Of note, FEMA is just a giant contracting agency. They don't actually run the disaster (pre-Katrina). The affected state runs the disaster. When it becomes a multi-state emergency or if the state is incapable or handling the issue, then FEMA and the Federal gov't need to establish a Principle Federal Official to run things. This is what Admiral Allen did during Katrina.
If DHS determines a need for DOD support, then SECHLS will request support from SECDEF and that got the ball rolling.
Today the federal gov't can start positioning forces pre-event to lean forward. Some of the Post-Katrina changes are:
NORTHCOM and FEMA has discussed what types of units may be required for different types of emergencies. Hurricane, earthquake, fires, etc. These force packages are basically standing RFF's that can be launched if needed. Big things on these lists are helos, trucks, water purification, medical teams, engineers, and comm equipment.
At the same time, NORTHCOM has permanent LNO's stationed at all the FEMA regional HQ's. This way as soon as FEMA gets a call on something, there is a NORTHCOM rep at the table listening and taking notes. He'll call home quickly so NORTHCOM can start leaning forward to assist. This was not in place pre-Katrina and from what I hear it saves a lot of time, phonecalls and emails by having a trusted individual at the table when FEMA's trying to figure out what support may be needed.
Since changing OPCON of a unit requires SECDEF approval, deploying forces that are in CONUS (and will be COCOM to most likely either JFCOM or PACOM, and COCOM confers OPCON) will require a DEPORD. These RFF's contain verbiage that will allow them be deployed on verbal orders from the JFCOM Commander. There are also some other units that can deploy on verbal orders with DEPORD to follow later that are tied to about every mission you could conceive the military being involved.
There are some limitation with how far DOD can lean forward for DSCA. One big issue was DOD is not allowed to have extra warehouses of MRE's standing by in the event we need them for humanitarian assistance. DOD has a limit on the number of MRE's they can have stored, it has something to do with different types of money and funding of agencies; I heard it once, but killed those brain cells off with alcohol long ago...
Hope that clears it up a bit
There's also that mythical 12th seat between the two gunners' seats, facing aft.
Last time I checked - that isn't your call to dump the seats and start stacking people like cordwood...
I don't think he was saying it was.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
During Katrina we packed people in until we ran out of torque or room. With the fatties, we'd run out of room first. (they are less dense)
But you had a note from Mom and Dad saying it was okay to do that, which is what I think HSCS was getting at.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Like I haven't done things contrary to NATOPS on a normal SAR without said permission.. (using that NATOPS not substitute for sound judgment clause)
There are circumstances. I've done it: SAR. Just sayin....
Operational Neccessity is defined in doctrine: a mission associated with war or peacetime operations in which the consequences of an action justify the risk of loss of aircraft and crew.
Your decision to violate NATOPS or 3710 by taking more people than you have seats is not Operation Neccessity. It's a HAC call to violate a rule based upon sound judgement and experience.
We never used it in my sea tour. If you have an aux tank in and are trying to max pax, then you need to pull that seat to fit in rafts.
Like Gator said, when I said you, I was implying that you were either an area commander or a numbered fleet commander who had had the appropriate authority delegated to you. I'm neither of these things, but I'm sure it's just because the letter got caught up in admin.
Right. I understand Operational Necessity, and it's "...justify accepting the risk..."
I am not an Admiral nor an OTCMy point was not about Operational Necessity, just addressing the post about "it's not your call" in regards to taking pax without seats, well.... it is. Sometimes. But that decision isn't about Operational Necessity. In fact, OPNAV addresses the relief from the requirement for seats during a SAR.