"High Risk of Runway Collisions"

[A4sForever]

If you believe ATC isn't "controlling" anything then that would suggest that the pilot is controlling everything; to say that is pretty arrogant. So the next time I'm in the Bravo airspace in Chicago and the controller tells me to turn right to 310 DM2400 and slow to 170kt, I'll just tell him thanks for the advice but I'm going to do it my way; I'm in control. There'd be a total breakdown in the system. I know you're an airline captain but I'm really confused by your post if you were being serious. People respect your opinion around here and some who may not understand the system might get the wrong ideas based on your statement.

You're right ... I am arrogant. And I know the score. It's called experience based on lessons learned. I do not suffer fools lightly, whether they are in the cockpit or in the Center.

You are not understanding what I'm saying. If it helps you -- when "it" makes sense and is routine, of course I go along/get along with ATC. Why do you think I've survived >20,000 hours in the air??? And when flying internationally, YOU are the "controller" --- believe that.

But when my ass (and/or the collective asses of others who put their faith and trust in my abilities) is on the line and the "advisor/controller" is .... shall we say .... misinformed (?), I tell him/her "NO" and do the right thing. And I'm prepared to defend it at the end of the day; and I have ....

When the airplane crashes and burns, the ATC "specialist" goes back to work the next day. The pilot might not ...

*edit* ... this was not intended to be a snotty response to you; just tryin' to clarify the unclear. Stay safe ...

 

[A4sForever]

Just one more point so you guys won't think I'm bashing ATC -- 'cause I'm not, overall --- but it's worth mentioning that some of the most impressive displays of SA that I've EVER seen usually came out of the tower Chief's/controllers in some of the TRACOM fields. Truly a thing to behold w/ 20-30 aircraft in the VFR pattern simultaneously ... one guy in Beeville was legend -- after landing during one of his "performances", I said over the freq: "Very impressive, Tower ... "

He simply said: "Thank you" (he KNEW he was good) and went on with his non-stop pattern control. Notice I said ... "control"???

The guy was truly the pinnacle of his profession.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Just one more point so you guys won't think I'm bashing ATC -- 'cause I'm not, overall --- but it's worth mentioning that some of the most impressive displays of SA that I've EVER seen usually came out of the tower Chief's/controllers in some of the TRACOM fields. Truly a thing to behold w/ 20-30 aircraft in the VFR pattern simultaneously ... one guy in Beeville was legend -- after landing during one of his "performances", I said over the freq: "Very impressive, Tower ... "

He simply said: "Thank you" (he KNEW he was good) and went on with his non-stop pattern control. Notice I said ... "control"???

The guy was truly the pinnacle of his profession.

I'll agree with you on this one, I've always been impressed with the tower chiefs/approach chiefs at training fields. New River trains a bunch of new controllers all the time, and it's funny when you hear some kid flailing "Leroy, turn left, no right 235, no 240, umm", only to hear the chief come up "Leroy01turnrightheading235,slightlyleftofcourse,onglideslope." without hesitation. I've heard student controllers melt down during SVFR ops as well...

 

[KBayDog]

...it's funny when you hear some kid flailing "Leroy, turn left, no right 235, no 240, umm", only to hear the chief come up "Leroy01turnrightheading235,slightlyleftofcourse,onglideslope." without hesitation. I've heard student controllers melt down during SVFR ops as well...

Did they yell, "LEEEEROY JENKINS!"?

 

[Cobra Commander]

YGBSM! Controllers make more than pilots now. Controller pay is at an all time high, and about to go up.

Stress? Give me a break. Stress of what? Spilling coffee in their lap?

They have high attrition because all the scabs are retiring.

Well I think the older guys are paid well, but the new guys aren't. I don't think they're on the same pay scale. Like other people have said, they have to work a lot longer hours than they should.

Stress of crashing planes into each other...that sounds pretty stressful to me

Could you explain the scabs thing. I've never heard of that. I know that some of the smaller airports have contract towers, but scab government employees...I didn't know it could happen.

Obviously I don't know this from first hand experience. I got to go up in the tower cab at Dulles and the controllers were talking about that kind of stuff. It almost made me want to do ATC...almost.

 

[FrankTheTank]

If you believe ATC isn't "controlling" anything then that would suggest that the pilot is controlling everything; to say that is pretty arrogant. So the next time I'm in the Bravo airspace in Chicago and the controller tells me to turn right to 310 DM2400 and slow to 170kt, I'll just tell him thanks for the advice but I'm going to do it my way; I'm in control. There'd be a total breakdown in the system. I know you're an airline captain but I'm really confused by your post if you were being serious. People respect your opinion around here and some who may not understand the system might get the wrong ideas based on your statement.

One word has worked for me the few times I have had (let's say) differences with ATC----> "UNABLE"

 

[Flash]

Well I think the older guys are paid well, but the new guys aren't. I don't think they're on the same pay scale. Like other people have said, they have to work a lot longer hours than they should.

Stress of crashing planes into each other...that sounds pretty stressful to me

Could you explain the scabs thing. I've never heard of that. I know that some of the smaller airports have contract towers, but scab government employees...I didn't know it could happen.

Obviously I don't know this from first hand experience. I got to go up in the tower cab at Dulles and the controllers were talking about that kind of stuff. It almost made me want to do ATC...almost.

I believe he was referring to the guys who were hired after this:

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/reagan.years/whitehouse/airtraffic.htm

Many of the guys retiring now were hired after the strike. And no, govies shouldn't strike.