Hiroshima 60 years later

[hellodollies]

Today marked the 60th anniversary of the Enola Gay delivering the fat boy to Japan. Personally I think at the time the Japanese got what they had coming not just for Pearl Harbor but for the war crimes committed against the Chinese for years. Anyone think it was unneccesary? I think it had to be done to bring a stubborn enemy to surrender.

 

[gaijin6423]

This is an issue that has been debated (sometimes pretty viciously) time and time again, with varying results. Did it prevent a conventional invasion of Japan? Yep. Was it necessary or the best course of action? ... I don't know if I'm qualified to armchair quarterback that decision, despite my obvious genius. From what I've read (and this region was a specialty of mine in college) there are pretty substantial arguments for both sides of the should have/shouldn't have dropped the bomb. There are people in both the US and Japan (among other countries) who argue that it was the right/wrong thing to do, and which side people take might surprise you.

I will say that, despite the revoltingly biased Peace Park Museum in Hiroshima, I have yet to meet a Japanese person that held a lingering bitterness about either the war or the atomic bombings. That doesn't mean they aren't out there, but they're definitely not the majority of the Japanese people. Personally, I'd say it was a toss-up between the bombing and McArthur's constitution (specifically Article IX) as to which screwed the Japanese over the biggest.

As my Japanese friends would say, "The situation is difficult." And if you've met many Japanese, you know what that means.

 

[Fly Navy]

to which screwed the Japanese over the biggest.

That's what happens when you lose a war in which you behaved like an animal.

At least we learned our lessons from WWI on how to punish the loser.

 

[Slammer2]

I will say that, despite the revoltingly biased Peace Park Museum in Hiroshima, I have yet to meet a Japanese person that held a lingering bitterness about either the war or the atomic bombings.

Do you think that this is because of the huge buildup of forces we have there that could smack the hell out of them if need be, or do you think it is because they are able to move on, unlike other regions of the world?

 

[gaijin6423]

Do you think that this is because of the huge buildup of forces we have there that could smack the hell out of them if need be, or do you think it is because they are able to move on, unlike other regions of the world?

Actually, I think it's because Japan as a whole is basically one giant dissociative personality. Kind of like the entire country just went, "Yeeeaaaahhh... We're just not going to talk about that anymore." This is not necessarily a good thing, though, because they refuse to acknowledge their vicious treatment of China, Korea, and basically everyone else they encountered before and during WW2. Hence, one of the reasons why Japan is still viewed with fear and hatred in East Asia.

I'd elaborate a bit more, but I'm frigging tired.

 

[The Chief]

... or do you think it is because they are able to move on ...

I think the foreigner is correct. I think shigataganai best captures their feeling. I think there is no short Japanese/English translation that accurately reflects the true meaning, but think it is something on the order of "what has happened was meant to be happen and there is nothing we can do about it now." Generally, those many that I have talked to all seemed to believe it was their Government and their Military that caused them pain. I just watched the NHK news coverage/interviews of the 60th anniversary (via satellite) and while my Japanese has become somewhat rusty over the years, I saw no bitterness against the American people, but bitterness against their military.

One point that the Japnese seem to jump to when one compares Pearl Harbor to Hiroshima. They point out that Pearl Harbor was a military raid, isolated to military targets on Oahu. Of the 2,896 killed in the raid, only 36 civilians were killed, accidently, the remainder were military, acceptable to them under bushido. No civilian targets were hit. The Hiroshima raid, on the other hand, killed 80,000, most of where were women and children, few military were in Hiroshima. I again stress this is the Japanese view.

Of course use of the bomb was necessary. I belive the original target was Kure but it was socked in and Hiroshima was an alternate.

Shigataganai.

 

[Brett327]

When I was in Hiroshima a couple years back, I got lots of dirty looks in the museum. All I could think was, "Pearl Harbor, b!tches." It is amazing just how much blatant propaganda in in that museum. All this stuff about why we dropped them and what not. "Well, the war was almost over, but they had already spent the money, so they figured, what the hell."

Brett

 

[gaijin6423]

Ah, the Peace Park Museum... Such fond memories of the little wax children w/ pieces of glass stuck in their faces. And let's not forget the hundreds of itterations of how, "...the innocent Japanese people were brutally attacked by the Americans."

I got pretty upset the first time I visited the place, to say the least.

 

[snizo]

I havent been to the one in Hiroshima - but have seen the museum and park in Nagasaki. While I'm not going to say this in any justifies our actions or downgrades the effects it had on Japan - Brett is right on with the museum.

For example: they tell people that the only inhabitants the city were schools for the blind and orphanages (nevermind the arms manufacutring plant that was there). Also - the only thing they say happened on Dec 7 1941 was "pacific war started" with absolutely no mention of why or how.

 

[squorch2]

At least we learned our lessons from WWI on how to punish the loser.

I assume you mean rebuilding their infrastructure and not imposing excessive reparations - the Marshall Plan vice the Treaty of Versailles.

 

[NozeMan]

When I was in Japan this summer we didn't really mention Hiroshima or anything like that. But when it comes up, they get very offended and anti american. The thing is, their history lessons are so slanted there. They have no idea what WW II was really about. They have no clue that Japan murdered 30 million chinese etc. I got pissed about that.

 

[eddie]

They have no idea what WW II was really about. They have no clue that Japan murdered 30 million chinese etc.

This came up earlier with some people today. What do they think WWII was about?

They have no clue that Japan murdered 30 million chinese etc.

Check those numbers... I was under the impression that the Russians took the cake with 20 million. I thought China lost like 10.5 million, plus 20 million more due to the revolutions. No?

 

[IRfly]

One thing that can be said in favor of the atomic bomb is that it certainly provided an air of finality to the war--everyone knew it was over, thus enabling the Japanese to put it behind them. Last summer I sat down and had a drink with a German and Japanese, both about my age...on a beach in Turkey. Crazy world...60 years ago our grandparents were in a mortal struggle...

 

[NozeMan]

This came up earlier with some people today. What do they think WWII was about?

Check those numbers... I was under the impression that the Russians took the cake with 20 million. I thought China lost like 10.5 million, plus 20 million more due to the revolutions. No?

This is no kidding: I spoke with an american who was a liason to the JMSDF. Obviously he spoke perfect japanese etc, he said that the way it is taught in Japan is Japan went to war to liberate asian states from western imperial control....interesting.

the 30 million figure came from "Flyboys" I believe. Regardless of the number, they still murdered chinese because they were chinese. No other reason, it's sick and they did it.

 

[SteveG75]

Good column here:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jeffjacoby/jj20050808.shtml