The ones I've seen call it the "Great Pacific War" .... Japanese I know recognize it as such, as well. The only catch is they consider the inclusive years of the struggle as having run from 1937-1945 .....IRfly said:
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Hiroshima 60 years later
- Thread starter hellodollies
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gaijin6423
Ask me about ninjas!
IRfly said:
That's the thing, they really don't. At least not in an unambiguous manner anyway. The texts (written/sanctioned by the government, of course) make no mention whatsoever of the attrocities committed by Japan during the war, and that pisses everyone in East Asia off.
If you're talking vocabulary, though, they call it WW2 just like everyone else.
Ah, so .... not entirely true gaijin-grasshopper ... I think "they" call it WW2 to placate Western attitudes ... always great hosts, the Japanese.gaijin6423 said:
On one occasion when I made a PA while flying past Iwo Jima in February 1995 (the 50th avviversary of the battle) I referred to the "Great Pacific War" ... one of the interpreters came to the cockpit and said some of the "older" passangers liked the fact that I refered to it as such ..... so there.
Yeah, I was going for just the vocab, hoping to gain a little more insight into how they view the war.
As far as not referring to atrocities (disclaimer: Although I'm aware of the atrocities committed by the Japanese, I'm no expert on the subject. I'm also no expert on what is or is not included in Japanese publications), everyone does that to some extent or another . Whether the Japanese are particularly grievous offenders, I cannot say. But every nation glosses over the less convenient points of their own history.
As far as not referring to atrocities (disclaimer: Although I'm aware of the atrocities committed by the Japanese, I'm no expert on the subject. I'm also no expert on what is or is not included in Japanese publications), everyone does that to some extent or another . Whether the Japanese are particularly grievous offenders, I cannot say. But every nation glosses over the less convenient points of their own history.
gaijin6423
Ask me about ninjas!
A4sForever said:
You may be right, but in years of dealing with JMSDF, Japanese government, and Japanese civilians, they've only referred to it as the big W-W-2. Hell, even their national defense pubs and a little old Kaiheitai (Japanese Naval Infantry) guy I met called it WW2. But hey, I'm just the young'un here.
The older generation of Japanese are an interesting bunch, and they do like to look back on the glory days of the empire. So it wouldn't surprise me if they were pretty pleased you called it that. I went 15 rounds with an older gentleman in Japan about the "correct" names for various Pacific islands in Tokyo once. We wound up deciding that the other was a stubborn bastard and bought each other a drink.
Fly,Fly Navy said:
My grandfather (an intel officer and translator during the occupation) used to tell me that "The Germans thought they were the Master Race, but the Japanese knew they were." I did not mean to imply that the Japanese did not do the horrible things they did or diminish the brutality of these actions. I think the fact that they, as a society, cannot really own up to what happened is sad, self-deceptive, and unhealthy.
Yes... they murdered the Chinese because they were Chinese. What I had meant to argue was that the war was not about "killing the Chinese," which I now realize was not what Nozeman had actually said. So... I'm wrong.
Anyways: bomb thread already said it. Bomb=Good. I'm alive today for it.
But in yet another change of thought: Let's say that for one reason or another, Germany did not go fascist/communist, and no European war ever started. Would the Pacific War still have happened?
Haven't been to Hiroshima either, but have been to ground zero at Nagasaki and its museum. I found the Japanese to be very polite to me, almost scary as a matter of fact. I never felt like I was the odd man out when walking around and looking at the exhibits. I think a lot of us were simply awe struck, in that the bomb was dropped "right here". On more than one occasion, I found myself discussing the dropping of the bomb with the Japanese people in the museum. It was interesting to hear their perspective, as it was I'm sure, to hear ours. They knew we were a different generation.snizo said:
Absolutely .... that one never ends.gaijin6423 said:
My experience as well .... so how does anyone/everyone feel about the 80-something year old Japanese tourist checking out the Arizona Memorial? No problem-O ??? Probably like they felt about me visiting the Hiroshima/Nagasaki sites. For some reason, I always get some kind of "disconnect" ... not hostility ... just a sense of irony, I suppose ...Steve Wilkins said:
IRfly said:
Excellent question. Colloquial, most often term I have heard was simply Senso (War). Pacific Ocean War or Taiheiyo Senso is in the Japanese/English dictionary. World War II is not to be found. There is another "term" non descriptive but cannot remember. Will remember at 3AM.
There was a book published in Japan in the late 1970's by Ienaga, that has been translated into English, title is "Taiheiyo Senso - 1931 - 1945". It provides, in graphic detail, the atrocities committed by Japanese Imperial Forces, throughout the theater.
The official reference, found in the dictionary is the Great East Asia War.
LTC Keisuke Matsumoto, Japanese Self Defense Force Staff College published, 1987 as I recalll, a treatise entitled "The Great East Asian War"
That is all I know.
gaijin6423
Ask me about ninjas!
I think the difference of naming is indicative of a shift in Japanese culture. Public displays of affection are fast becoming more acceptable; women are growing out of their (relatively) more traditional roles; etc. If you ask some older Japanese (probably the same ones who the old farts on this site have been associating with--HA!), they'll probably tell you that their country's going to hell.
There are several opinions as to just why this is happening. Personally, I think it has to do with an economic paradigm shift. Specifically, that the Japanese economy is moving further and further from the aggriculture-based economy of its history, and more towards a commercially dominated one. This may sound counter-intuitive, as Japan is one of the largest commercial economies in the world, but farmers are the single biggest political powerhouse in Japan. Where in hell am I going with this? Well, as a traditionalist-based country, traditional Japanese values ruled. But as the nation moves further away from its traditional base, more liberal social standards become prevalent.
Of course, it COULD just be all the freaky anime twisting their minds.
There are several opinions as to just why this is happening. Personally, I think it has to do with an economic paradigm shift. Specifically, that the Japanese economy is moving further and further from the aggriculture-based economy of its history, and more towards a commercially dominated one. This may sound counter-intuitive, as Japan is one of the largest commercial economies in the world, but farmers are the single biggest political powerhouse in Japan. Where in hell am I going with this? Well, as a traditionalist-based country, traditional Japanese values ruled. But as the nation moves further away from its traditional base, more liberal social standards become prevalent.
Of course, it COULD just be all the freaky anime twisting their minds.
gaijin6423 said:
Well now, I believe you must blame MacArthur for that and his egalitarian edict. Land was taken away from large land owners, divided up and given to farmers, throughout Japan The idea was that the farmers would produce food for the then starving population. Along with economic prosperity, land values exploded. The farmers, rather than farm, sold or leased their new found wealth. Many became instant millionaires.
That is why. Not saying good or bad.