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hornet going down
- Thread starter staff03
- Start date
To salvage or not to salvage?
Several things are considered before they determine if a salvage effort is warranted. First, it depends on how deep the water is and whether it can be salvaged making it a moot point even if salvage is desired. There are two top reasons aircraft are salvaged:
1) Cause of loss is questionable and salvage would give investigators important clues
2) Aircraft contains classified equipment that cannot be left for "others" to exploit (most famous was loss of Tomcat and a Phoenix missile in international waters early in operational carrer and fears the Soviet UNion would mount a salvage attempt if US did not*)
Another reason warranting salvage is if wreakage is a hazard to navigation (in shallow water)
Salvage of F-14 Tomcat
US Naval Safety Center
* ...on 14 September 1976, VF-32 lost a Tomcat some 60 nautical miles north of Scotland when an F-14 experienced “runaway engines” and began to skid across the flight deck. Lieutenant John L. “Lew” Kosich, the pilot (CVW-1 staff), mindful of the pack of aircraft spotted forward, alertly steered the Tomcat toward the deck edge. Just prior to the F-14 going over the side into 315 fathoms of water, Lieutenant (j.g.) Louis E. “Les” Seymour, the NFO, initiated command ejection, and both men landed on the flight deck with minor injuries. Intensive deep-water salvage operations recovered most of the F-14A and the missile it carried. (excerpted from official history of USS John F. Kennedy)
Several things are considered before they determine if a salvage effort is warranted. First, it depends on how deep the water is and whether it can be salvaged making it a moot point even if salvage is desired. There are two top reasons aircraft are salvaged:
1) Cause of loss is questionable and salvage would give investigators important clues
2) Aircraft contains classified equipment that cannot be left for "others" to exploit (most famous was loss of Tomcat and a Phoenix missile in international waters early in operational carrer and fears the Soviet UNion would mount a salvage attempt if US did not*)
Another reason warranting salvage is if wreakage is a hazard to navigation (in shallow water)
Salvage of F-14 Tomcat
US Naval Safety Center
* ...on 14 September 1976, VF-32 lost a Tomcat some 60 nautical miles north of Scotland when an F-14 experienced “runaway engines” and began to skid across the flight deck. Lieutenant John L. “Lew” Kosich, the pilot (CVW-1 staff), mindful of the pack of aircraft spotted forward, alertly steered the Tomcat toward the deck edge. Just prior to the F-14 going over the side into 315 fathoms of water, Lieutenant (j.g.) Louis E. “Les” Seymour, the NFO, initiated command ejection, and both men landed on the flight deck with minor injuries. Intensive deep-water salvage operations recovered most of the F-14A and the missile it carried. (excerpted from official history of USS John F. Kennedy)
Whenever there is a runaway, I blame the parents.
Big concern is do we know what happened...the MIR. If it could be an endemic problem in whatever community...for example afterburner liner burn through on the F-14D...they'll go to great lengths to recover the jet. I've seen one recovered from 3000'...mostly after the engines to look for a burn through.
One of my sim instructors was telling me the old A model Tomcat had some "quirky" engines early on. He was saying that, believe it or not, he saw several engines "runaway" for no apparent reason, wierd enough to the point that some of them the reason for it they couldn't figure out.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
TF-30
Was still considered a "bad word" when I worked at Pratt & Whitney in the late 90s.
Was still considered a "bad word" when I worked at Pratt & Whitney in the late 90s.
They would also apparently have compressor stalls if you looked at them cross-eyed. Like Master said, not a good mark for P&W. I was curious because in the Prowler (with our spontaneously exploding J52s :icon_tong), a throttle linkage failure can cause the engine to basically do whatever it wants depending on what the vibrations do to the FCU.
And that's more than enough NATOPs geekery for the weekend . . .
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Different animal, but in the 60's you had 2 "throttle cables" and both were spring loaded to max-power.
One set the max power available (PAS, normally left at "fly" aka max power)
The other was a load-demand cable, which told the HMU about how much power the rotors wanted.
The governor trimmed it to the desired RPM.
Either cable breaking could cause some form of runaway (aka, high side failure).
One set the max power available (PAS, normally left at "fly" aka max power)
The other was a load-demand cable, which told the HMU about how much power the rotors wanted.
The governor trimmed it to the desired RPM.
Either cable breaking could cause some form of runaway (aka, high side failure).
Nerd alert! :icon_tong
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
NERDS!!!
"Nobody snuggles with Max Power. You strap yourself in and feel the "G"s!"
Max Power. He's the man whose name you'd love to touch. But you mustn't toooooooouch.
"Max Power doesn't abbreviate. Each letter is as important as the one that preceded it. Maybe more important! No, as important."