Terrible.
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
House passes aviation safety bill in response to Buffalo crash
- Thread starter nittany03
- Start date
So...I can sit at my house and do CAI's and get my wings of gold? This is one of those examples that makes everybody lose faith in our government.
They pass legislation that probably isn't going to help anything, and then dick it up even worse by making loopholes for big business (or big academia, whoever it is with the money). Hallmark of our lawmakers. Why do I ever think that writing to my congressmen ever makes a difference.
They pass legislation that probably isn't going to help anything, and then dick it up even worse by making loopholes for big business (or big academia, whoever it is with the money). Hallmark of our lawmakers. Why do I ever think that writing to my congressmen ever makes a difference.
All I can say to this is 'Agreed'...Congress hasn't exactly been "of the people or for the people" in quite some time.
I was talking with the FAA inspector prior to my Part 135 checkride a few weeks ago about just this topic. We have a whole generation of flight instructors out there now that have little to no stick and rudder skills, teaching new pilots that will have no stick and rudder skills. Too much reliance on technology to fly the plane these days...
Need we look any further than Jack Roush's incident this weekend? Would be interested to see what level of training he received to fly a multi-engine jet. I suspect it was the best (eh hem, least) money could buy.?.
I've heard this song somewhere before- with different lyrics but the theme was the same.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=fork+tailed+doctor+killer
I started a thread similar to this after watching the Frontline documentary 'Flying Cheap' which talks extensively about the Colgan air mishap and the situation that exists in the regionals. I was very surprised to hear the types of schedules these guys are being asked to work and how much they are getting paid for it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/
They made mention of a gross lack of mentorship from captain to FOs in the regionals, something that is highly valued in the major carriers. They made it sound as though the lack of mentorship is due to the regional captains drive to get in and out of the regionals as quickly as possible and move onto a major carrier. They also made it sound as though the regional captains had only slightly more experience than their FOs, something that is also not the case in the major carriers as I understand it.
For those interested in watching the NTSB video generated from the FDR from the Colgan air crash:
Isn't that the second plane he has crashed?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/
They made mention of a gross lack of mentorship from captain to FOs in the regionals, something that is highly valued in the major carriers. They made it sound as though the lack of mentorship is due to the regional captains drive to get in and out of the regionals as quickly as possible and move onto a major carrier. They also made it sound as though the regional captains had only slightly more experience than their FOs, something that is also not the case in the major carriers as I understand it.
For those interested in watching the NTSB video generated from the FDR from the Colgan air crash:
Isn't that the second plane he has crashed?
Can anyone find it documented that the likes of ERAU and U North Dakota lobbied for the loopholes? Doesn't seem hard to believe that they would have. It certainly would have hurt their bottom lines if graduating students were not viable regional candidates anymore because they couldn't get 1500 hours during their four years. Why would a prospective student attend one of these expensive programs? What this loophole implies is that there is some level of GROUND/ academic training that can adequately substitute for the ritual of flight. The act of manning up, starting the engines, taxiing, take off and landing. These things can not be substituted, these are the areas where we learn the most as fledgling aviators.
consider this through the lens of something that may be a little nearer and dearer: "you need 50 hours in type to go CQ, but we're going to give you 15 hours of really good lectures, 20 hours of simulators, and another 15 hours of actual flying and call that your 50. don't F it up, we're all counting on you."
consider this through the lens of something that may be a little nearer and dearer: "you need 50 hours in type to go CQ, but we're going to give you 15 hours of really good lectures, 20 hours of simulators, and another 15 hours of actual flying and call that your 50. don't F it up, we're all counting on you."
This is a needless cheap shot at Roush -- plenty of highly experienced pilots have made mistakes much worse than the one he apparently made last week.
No its not. Read the NTSB report from his first accident. He had two hours in type, one in the last 90 days, of the airplane he flew into powerlines while doing some low level sight seeing in VMC conditions over a lake in Troy, AL. Asking what kind of training he had to be flying a multi-engine jet by himself (yes, wife was in cabin) is a valid question.
I think it's a good thing to require more experience and better qualifications for new hires. If that's what happens across the board, of course -- and the 'pilot mill$' are not granted any 'exception$' ... as there's too many people who've been hired with minimum qualifications for years and that doesn't cut it when 'it' hits the fan.
In times past (with some notable exceptions - think UAL 4 decades ago), the airlines would 'usually' hire only the 'best & the brightest', at least as judged by their collective flight departments' yardstick(s). That meant you HAD to have max hours and max certificates to be 'competitive'. Military flight time was usually valued more highly than an equal amount of civvie time. You had to have an FE (no longer a player), an ATP, and be typed in 'something' to show you had the 'gray matter' to do it on the line. The airlines did NOT want to hire guys who could not get an ATP ... so why not find out about it 'now' instead of years later ... ??? Especially when the applicant will pay the freight -- and the GI bill could/would provide the means.
Very few guys got hired when the floodgates opened in the late '70s w/ anything less ...
Then came deregulation ... more Arab-Israeli wars (interminable) ... Arab oil boycotts ... fuel cost spikes ... then low-cost carriers spawned from deregulation (most of which went out of business -- but while 'alive', they drove the cost competition fever UP and wages paid DOWN) ... then SARS ... then GULF I ... then 9-11 ... then GULF II ... all in all; rough times for airlines.
The most recent trend (a decade, perhaps??) has been to hire cheap and easy -- instead of hiring relative 'quality'. The standards, quite frankly, have gone down ... way down. Plus, how is one to get 'jet time' in civvie-street?? It ain't easy ...
Bottom line: the airlines don't really care about 'quality', no matter how much lip service is paid to safety and training, etc., etc. ... they only care about minimizing training costs and their overall financial balance sheet. There's too many lawyers and accountants running airlines today, and not enough aviation oriented executives who 'grew up' in the airlines. I suppose we'll never see them again ... only financial types and carpetbaggers.
Side note: I have personally seen a 4+ foot stack of applications at one major air carrier -- and only @ 6" of that was 'qualified' ... (and no... that's NOT what she said ... )
Here's a .pdf file that might be of interest to some of you ...
ALPA WHITE PAPER: Producing a Professional Airline Pilot
In times past (with some notable exceptions - think UAL 4 decades ago), the airlines would 'usually' hire only the 'best & the brightest', at least as judged by their collective flight departments' yardstick(s). That meant you HAD to have max hours and max certificates to be 'competitive'. Military flight time was usually valued more highly than an equal amount of civvie time. You had to have an FE (no longer a player), an ATP, and be typed in 'something' to show you had the 'gray matter' to do it on the line. The airlines did NOT want to hire guys who could not get an ATP ... so why not find out about it 'now' instead of years later ... ??? Especially when the applicant will pay the freight -- and the GI bill could/would provide the means.
Very few guys got hired when the floodgates opened in the late '70s w/ anything less ...
Then came deregulation ... more Arab-Israeli wars (interminable) ... Arab oil boycotts ... fuel cost spikes ... then low-cost carriers spawned from deregulation (most of which went out of business -- but while 'alive', they drove the cost competition fever UP and wages paid DOWN) ... then SARS ... then GULF I ... then 9-11 ... then GULF II ... all in all; rough times for airlines.
The most recent trend (a decade, perhaps??) has been to hire cheap and easy -- instead of hiring relative 'quality'. The standards, quite frankly, have gone down ... way down. Plus, how is one to get 'jet time' in civvie-street?? It ain't easy ...
Bottom line: the airlines don't really care about 'quality', no matter how much lip service is paid to safety and training, etc., etc. ... they only care about minimizing training costs and their overall financial balance sheet. There's too many lawyers and accountants running airlines today, and not enough aviation oriented executives who 'grew up' in the airlines. I suppose we'll never see them again ... only financial types and carpetbaggers.
Side note: I have personally seen a 4+ foot stack of applications at one major air carrier -- and only @ 6" of that was 'qualified' ... (and no... that's NOT what she said ... )
Here's a .pdf file that might be of interest to some of you ...
ALPA WHITE PAPER: Producing a Professional Airline Pilot
ryan1234
Well-Known Member
He would have had at the very least pass a type ride in the RA-390 - which is to ATP Standards...
He has two type ratings, technically three if you count the P-51, as well as an ATP MEL/SEL.
The type in the P-51 does take a large level of proficient stick and rudder skills to achieve.
Not making excuses for him, but by the looks of things he had a fair amount of flight experience - there may have been any factors present... not to mention that flying into the Oshkosh event in a jet is challenging itself... he's not the first in recent times to have a serious accident there.
True, but I think you might be shortchanging groundschool and simulators. I can learn more in one hour practicing engine starts and starting malfunctions in a simulator with a good instructor followed by ten actual engine starts than I can in a hundred engine starts and no sim time.
I agree there's a point of too much sim and not enough airplane and this formula (for the sake of argument) is way past that point.
In all fairness there is already a difference in hours required to earn a commercial certificate if training is done at a Part 61 or Part 141 school (not entirely unrelated example). There should be some benefit to going through the trouble of formal training to earn one's ratings, rather than endlessly tearing up the pumpkin patch in a puddle jumper and logging it with a fat pencil. Not to mention a training operation is something the FAA should be able to exert some control over.
A certain amount of oversight and not going overboard on the hours required should be implied... in an ideal world. (In an ideal world the CFI inbreeding mentioned by ryan1234 wouldn't happen either.)
Last thought- we can all agree that occasionally bad folks slip through the cracks in military flight training.
Roger that: it all started @ 1977 ...
The ONLY guys who can 'take it back' are YOU GUYS ... today ... extant ... guys who are 'on the ground' ... when we're talkin' about who's in the air ...
The bureaucrats never will ... they 'can't ... it's not in their genes.
BELIEVE IT.