How do DQs that are before flight physical work.

[AllAmerican75]

Hey,

Might have to go through something similar for SNA in the USMC. How did this end up going? I know it's been over a year. I would love to hear how this has gone for anyone else too. I want to know what my chances are. Has anyone been diagnosed and on meds for a time and cleared to be a pilot by NAMI?

I hate to tell you this but your chances are slim. The best way to get cleared by NAMI is the following: Go to your original doctor who diagnosed you with ADHD and have him or her provide you with a letter saying that you have no signs or symptoms of the disorder and do not require medication and likely the original diagnosis was not accurate. That is the tried and true way to do this. If you no longer have access to the original doctor, then go see a trained psychiatrist who can write you that letter.

Without having documents showing that you have been cleared of any and all suspicion of having ADHD, then the Navy will do their due diligence and test you for it. In my case, I spent the better part of OCS going to doctors appointments and being poked and prodded and evaluated by doctors and shrinks. It was stressful and all of the results came back as inconclusive. Just to be clear, OCS is not a good environment for evaluating your ability to concentrate, focus, and push your cognitive abilities. In the end, I received the NAMI Whammy while at OCS and had to redesignate. Most of the guys who got flagged for a condition that needed a waiver and investigation while I was there ended up having to redesignate as well. Understand that at this stage of the game, the doctors have nothing invested in you and use medical to weed you out of the pipeline and reduce potential risk of failure/catastrophe downstream in the Fleet. It's harsh but that's just the way it goes.

 

[FireSnow]

I hate to tell you this but your chances are slim. The best way to get cleared by NAMI is the following: Go to your original doctor who diagnosed you with ADHD and have him or her provide you with a letter saying that you have no signs or symptoms of the disorder and do not require medication and likely the original diagnosis was not accurate. That is the tried and true way to do this. If you no longer have access to the original doctor, then go see a trained psychiatrist who can write you that letter.

Without having documents showing that you have been cleared of any and all suspicion of having ADHD, then the Navy will do their due diligence and test you for it. In my case, I spent the better part of OCS going to doctors appointments and being poked and prodded and evaluated by doctors and shrinks. It was stressful and all of the results came back as inconclusive. Just to be clear, OCS is not a good environment for evaluating your ability to concentrate, focus, and push your cognitive abilities. In the end, I received the NAMI Whammy while at OCS and had to redesignate. Most of the guys who got flagged for a condition that needed a waiver and investigation while I was there ended up having to redesignate as well. Understand that at this stage of the game, the doctors have nothing invested in you and use medical to weed you out of the pipeline and reduce potential risk of failure/catastrophe downstream in the Fleet. It's harsh but that's just the way it goes.

Hi, thanks for replying. That was helpful. Why did you get the NAMI Whammy if you passed all the evaluations and the other stuff went well?
I am assuming you passed all the tests, got the waiver, and the investigation went in your favor because it almost sounds like that. Let me know if I am wrong.

Plus, I'm going OCC for the Marine Corps which guarantees a flight contract before OCS. I go to NAMI before I even apply to get a contract and get a date for OCS. This sounds like the Navy process so I was wondering if you know of any Marine candidates/Officers that got the NAMI Whammy after getting to OCS with a flight contract already.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Hi, thanks for replying. That was helpful. Why did you get the NAMI Whammy if you passed all the evaluations and the other stuff went well?
I am assuming you passed all the tests, got the waiver, and the investigation went in your favor because it almost sounds like that. Let me know if I am wrong.

Most of the tests came back "inconclusive" prompting more testing. Eventually the docs at NAMI erred on the side of caution and gave a me an NPQ letter. This is their job and they are very strict when it comes to anything having to do with cognition, emotional regulation, or mental disorders. Your best bet is to come to OCS with a letter from your diagnosing doctor saying that you are symptom-free and likely never had ADHD in the first place. That is the gold standard as far as getting a waiver from NAMI. Otherwise you never know what the waiver review board will think or say when they review their data.

Plus, I'm going OCC for the Marine Corps which guarantees a flight contract before OCS. I go to NAMI before I even apply to get a contract and get a date for OCS. This sounds like the Navy process so I was wondering if you know of any Marine candidates/Officers that got the NAMI Whammy after getting to OCS with a flight contract already.

Navy OCS works much the same way with you having a guaranteed designator/MOS prior to arriving at OCS. As a Marine you will still be reliant on Navy medical for all of your medical treatment and care. They will likely evaluate you in some way as everyone going into the military will receive an entrance physical at their indoctrination training whether that be the Academy, NROTC, boot camp, or OCS. The processes may differ slightly but they are more or less the same.

 

[FireSnow]

Most of the tests came back "inconclusive" prompting more testing. Eventually the docs at NAMI erred on the side of caution and gave a me an NPQ letter. This is their job and they are very strict when it comes to anything having to do with cognition, emotional regulation, or mental disorders. Your best bet is to come to OCS with a letter from your diagnosing doctor saying that you are symptom-free and likely never had ADHD in the first place. That is the gold standard as far as getting a waiver from NAMI. Otherwise you never know what the waiver review board will think or say when they review their data.


Navy OCS works much the same way with you having a guaranteed designator/MOS prior to arriving at OCS. As a Marine you will still be reliant on Navy medical for all of your medical treatment and care. They will likely evaluate you in some way as everyone going into the military will receive an entrance physical at their indoctrination training whether that be the Academy, NROTC, boot camp, or OCS. The processes may differ slightly but they are more or less the same.

Thank you I appreciate the insight. Do you know if there is a way to guarantee a flight contract before OCS through the Navy without going through the Academy? Just curious

 

[Mil3s]

Thank you I appreciate the insight. Do you know if there is a way to guarantee a flight contract before OCS through the Navy without going through the Academy? Just curious

you just apply for the sna board and take the astb.

 

[FireSnow]

you just apply for the sna board and take the astb.

Really?!? I thought they stopped doing that. So who do I talk to for that. An officer selection officer for the Navy or how could I do that? I did take the ASTB already with the Marine Corps.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Really?!? I thought they stopped doing that. So who do I talk to for that. An officer selection officer for the Navy or how could I do that? I did take the ASTB already with the Marine Corps.

Nope they have been doing it that way for decades. You need to talk to an officer recruiter, there are differences on how the two services do selections. The USMC puts a lot of weight on the PFT while the USN put almost all the weight on the ASTB.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Thank you I appreciate the insight. Do you know if there is a way to guarantee a flight contract before OCS through the Navy without going through the Academy? Just curious

The Academy and NROTC do not guarantee you a flight contract. You are almost entirely at the mercy of the Needs of the Navy and the selection boards who will choose what you get to do based upon your performance in NROTC/the Academy and academic record. The only way to get a guaranteed flight slot is to go to OCS.

That said, if you can get your education for free, take that opportunity.

 

[FireSnow]

The Academy and NROTC do not guarantee you a flight contract. You are almost entirely at the mercy of the Needs of the Navy and the selection boards who will choose what you get to do based upon your performance in NROTC/the Academy and academic record. The only way to get a guaranteed flight slot is to go to OCS.

That said, if you can get your education for free, take that opportunity.

So do you know why the Marine Corps for a while was saying they were the only ones that could guarantee a flight slot? I know the Army has WOFT but I want to be a naval aviator and have a chance to fly fixed wing aircraft.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

So do you know why the Marine Corps for a while was saying they were the only ones that could guarantee a flight slot? I know the Army has WOFT but I want to be a naval aviator and have a chance to fly fixed wing aircraft.

As in a recruiter told you that? The USN has done that for 20+ years, probably much longer.

 

[FireSnow]

As in a recruiter told you that? The USN has done that for 20+ years, probably much longer.

Yea a recruiter told me that. Crazy. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[FireSnow]

Yea a recruiter told me that. Crazy. Thanks for clearing that up.

On a side note, do you know if the US Air Force guarantees flight slots through their OTS (their OCS)? So basically already have degree and didn't go through an Academy or AFROTC. I heard they don't and it's competitive in OTS.

 

[AllAmerican75]

On a side note, do you know if the US Air Force guarantees flight slots through their OTS (their OCS)? So basically already have degree and didn't go through an Academy or AFROTC. I heard they don't and it's competitive in OTS.

Not sure how OTS works, but the Reserves and Air Guard do guarantee flight slots through their UPT programs. Those are highly competitive and you need to network to get them.

 

[elariosa95]

If you make it to ocs but are dq’d at the flight physical with a waiverable condition not covered at meps, what happens? At that point are you in limbo, reassigned, or sent for more testing?

If you’re at OCS, a request for a waiver will be sent to big NAMI (in Pensacola). You’ll continue to go through OCS while you wait, but typically you’ll either be advised by the flight doc to redesignate to a different community or not depending on what he/she thinks is likely to be waived.

As a side note, you are not officially NPQ from your original designator without the official NAMI letter saying you are, which you generally do not receive until you’re complete or near complete with OCS. With that said, even if the flight doc tells you to redesignate and you end up receiving a waver, you can keep your original designator - HOWEVER the opposite also applies where you can go through OCS and get NPQ’d at the end.

It sucks, and I’ve seen it happen. My advice if that happens to anyone is to make peace with getting another community if you’re serious about serving.

@miss1ng said pretty much everything, but I wanted to add a personal story since it happened recently and could help other people in this situation.

I suffered an injury and needed ankle surgery during the first week of SOC phase; my diagnoses were septic arthritis and an acute gout flare. At this point, my flight physical hadn't even been sent to Pensacola, and now I had to deal with the gout thing. The med liaisons and the flight surgeon advised me that it was highly unlikely that I would get a waiver from NAMI since the waiver guide specifically states that waivers are not recommended for aviation applicants (you are still considered an applicant while at OCS). I was sent to student pool to recover from my surgery and eventually came back even stronger than before. Even then, I was still being told that redesignating was my best option.

My surgeons (both Navy med) told me otherwise and put in their notes that this is my first instance of gout (which it was), that it was highly unlikely to occur again thanks to my lifestyle changes and medication, and that I was deemed fit for full duty. Fast forward to the week before graduation, and the med liasons call me into their office to let me know that NAMI recommended waivers for everything.

Moral of the story: You are your own biggest advocate. Have everything documented, and keep copies of those documents. Some things are entirely out of your control, but do your best to control the things you are able to. Keep your expectations realistic, but never give up.

 

[Mouselovr]

It is an unfortunate situation given that I want to go SNA but my personal policy is nothing but honesty. If the end result is a dq from aviation, so be it, hopefully the Navy will have other opportunities for me. If I’m unable to commission at all, well, I really did put forth my best effort and I guess it was not meant to be.

If it makes you feel any better, with the new medical system, you couldn’t have lied about your medication use anyway.

Have an SNA friend who took ADHD meds and cleared MEPS/NAMI, so it does happen.