How many Carriers are enough?

[Flash]

...Subic and other places are in better condition. Nobody said this would be cheap but it would be far less cost and an easier sell than some of the other nations in the region because the Phils legitimately feel the Chinese pressure being exerted on them across the pond.

To put a CVN and an air wing back in the PI is pretty much a non-starter. The PI has proven itself a somewhat unreliable partner ever since the basing agreement for Subic and Clark was up for renewal in '91 and rejected by their Senate. Their approval of SOFAs and other agreements to allow us to operate there since have often been quite contentious in their Senate. I would not be willing to pour the necessary resources to build and maintain the facilities necessary for a CVN and its support necessary in a place where a basing agreement would be subject to the whims of a semi-stable government with serious competency issues.

 

[PhrogLoop]

Trying to rebuild Clark is folly. The only thing that keeps that place alive is that Crow Valley is the only place to go dropping stuff.

The Phils dont even really own Clark anymore. The parts that are still sustained have mostly been handed back to the civilians, and the parts that arent handed back look like a scene out of the walking dead...

Not saying their efforts will be successful, but part of the attractiveness of the property is that it is remote, cheap, and ripe for development using foreign capital (not Phillipine money, not US money). Interest rates are low, money is cheap, and investment alternatives suck right now. Brown field redevelopment (just call it "green" and everyone is happy) is hot right now, especially in that part of the world.

 

[ea6bflyr]

To put a CVN and an air wing back in the PI is pretty much a non-starter. The PI has proven itself a somewhat unreliable partner ever since the basing agreement for Subic and Clark was up for renewal in '91 and rejected by their Senate. Their approval of SOFAs and other agreements to allow us to operate there since have often been quite contentious in their Senate. I would not be willing to pour the necessary resources to build and maintain the facilities necessary for a CVN and its support necessary in a place where a basing agreement would be subject to the whims of a semi-stable government with serious competency issues.

Maybe we need to build our own "island" forward staging base like someone else.

 

[Flash]

Maybe we need to build our own "island" forward staging base like someone else.

Great stationary target.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Great stationary target.

Like most land masses.....duh.

 

[Flash]

Like most land masses.....duh.

At least with most land bases though they have bigger infrastructure, are just plain bigger and are often closer to more support. A tiny place like Fiery Cross Reef might be good for showing the flag but are impractical for any sort of real defense nowadays, a handful of GBUs or Tomahawks would put the place out of action for a long time. I guess it is a better base than a 70 year-old LST run aground though.

 

[ea6bflyr]

At least with most land bases though they have bigger infrastructure, are just plain bigger and are often closer to more support. A tiny place like Fiery Cross Reef might be good for showing the flag but are impractical for any sort of real defense nowadays, a handful of GBUs or Tomahawks would put the place out of action for a long time. I guess it is a better base than a 70 year-old LST run aground though.

Yeah, you are correct; those PI Marines are tough as nails....this is a bit better story with incredible photos.

 

[wink]

...Clark AB into "Clark Green City:"
http://business.inquirer.net/172091/bcda-preparing-bidding-rules-for-clark-green-city

I imagine the green of jungle over growth encroaching on the Clark AB I remember.

 

[xj220]

Great article, I've never seen anything like that before. I don't know if they said or not, but how long are they on there fore?

 

[Pags]

You want to take a wild guess where I am right now?

The Phils have figured out just what the lost out on when they booted the US heavy presence out of their country. The atrophy of their military is very clear to their senior leadership. This is a country that went from flying F-5s as a front line air defense fighter to flying Italian training jets and pretending they are anything but.

And I wouldnt call it "left" so much as shrank our footprint. Though I cant even begin to think of how I would approach the conversation if I was trying to tell my spouse "hey honey... so we are gonna live in a cobra infested poverty stricken country but good news... we can get a maid for like 9 dollars a month."

Yeah, USS Last Ship would pull in to Subic frequently. You could tell the base used to be nice. used to being the key phrase, since it's now a shit hole. And I can't imagine it's much nicer outside the wire in Olongapo.

We played a lot with the PI, so while I can imagine us stepping up our presence there, I think the days of permanent FDNF in the PI are long gone. The infrastructure costs alone would be staggering let alone convincing people to live there with Mom and the kids.

 

[BigRed389]

The infrastructure costs alone would be staggering let alone convincing people to live there with Mom and the kids.

FDNF PI would be composed exclusively of single sailors and "not boring" married couples. Local MWR would offer leave packages to Thailand, Singapore, Australia and NZ. There's your recruiting problem solved right there.

 

[xmid]

FDNF PI would be composed exclusively of single sailors and "not boring" married couples. Local MWR would offer leave packages to Thailand, Singapore, Australia and NZ. There's your recruiting problem solved right there.

 

[robav8r]

And I can't imagine it's much nicer outside the wire in Olongapo.

It's not - was just there back in Oct'13. Olongapo looks exactly like it did when I was there last in '84. Some of the same "fun" still exists though

 

[Pags]

FDNF PI would be composed exclusively of single sailors and "not boring" married couples. Local MWR would offer leave packages to Thailand, Singapore, Australia and NZ. There's your recruiting problem solved right there.

The Navy struggles to fill OCONUS positions in relatively benign postings like Japan and Bahrain even with MWR leave packages to the aforementioned locales. I can see FDNF PI playing well with the Fillapino sailors and the crusty LDO crowd, but it'd be a struggle to find enough people to go there because it's incredibly impoverished. It might have been nice back in 80s and 90s, but Subic is no longer nice and the surrounding area is even worse.

 

[Pags]

It's not - was just there back in Oct'13. Olongapo looks exactly like it did when I was there last in '84. Some of the same "fun" still exists though

Yeah, when we were there a year prior we were allowed in to a tiny chunk of Olongapo but I never made it over shit river. There was more than enough crap in SBMA that a trip to O-city didn't seem worth it.

Regardless of its imperial grandeur of yesteryear, SBMA is a crap hole and was one of the few places that made the boat seem appealing. On top of it all, the boat picked up a nasty GI bug there that worked its way through the crew. SWOs were standing double watches and the Marines were ready to cancel whole flight skeds because of the number of people shitting and barfing their brains out.