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IDBC: New 3-Week Course for New IDC Accessions

PettyOfficerCJ

Well-Known Member
Here is the information that I promised. Some of the IW Officers at my command came to me with this information when it was passed down to the command. I also found an article that was published about it online. This will be for all new accessions in paygrades O1-O4 (also will probably include new Warrant Officers and lateral transfers) that come through all the commission sources. This course will take place in Dam Neck, Virginia Beach.

Here is the link: http://www.norfolknavyflagship.com/...cle_4dd13fc4-d3c3-11e4-84a1-c71c43941d76.html

This is an excerpt from from the message that was given to me and is a good summary of what information is available so far: "Information Dominance Basic Course: Starting in OCT 2015, all new IDC accessions will attend the course prior to their respective basic course. The purpose of the Information Dominance Basic Course is to enhance professional core competencies received through all commission sources by providing Information Dominance Corps Officers with specific foundational knowledge and practical training prior to attending technical strands."
 

usnavymle

Well-Known Member
One thing the article didn't mention: I'm sure the course will also provide a great overview of the IDC to those coming from the community's enlisted side; while we'll have a better understanding of many of the same general concepts, the difference between enlisted specialists and officers responsible for the bigger picture cannot be overstated.
Thanks a ton for the heads up.
 

usnavymle

Well-Known Member
I'm not a fan of the IDC construct, nor are a lot of folks in the intel community. I don't like this one bit.

This sums it up quite well: http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2014-10/masters-or-jacks
There are some valid points in this article, but many of them can be explained away as the growing pains of developing structure for a relatively new corps community.
I can't get into the specifics of it, but trust me, cyber is a legitimate platform.
The author claims here that further integrating the community will hurt the specializations of its personnel, but every senior Intel and IW officer I've spoken to preaches the need for it, especially at the O-5 and above level.
Having already spent a good six years in the community at a variety of IDC-centric commands, I can honestly say that much of what is stated in the link you've posted is an "old-school" mentality. The author can rest assured that Information Dominance as a warfighting discipline isn't taking anything away from the enabler side of the house.
 

PettyOfficerCJ

Well-Known Member
usnavymie hit the mark with his post. Increased collaboration is becoming an even more important and integral part of the IDC. It is not just the IDC community within the Navy, but it is also the Intelligence Community as a whole. The push is for the CIA, NSA, FBI, NGA, (continue with all the other 3-letter agencies as well as additional intelligence organizations), to work collaboratively and share information and resources. There are some excellent tools now to enable such collaboration and many more are being developed. What usnavymie referred to as the "old school mentality" is the mentality of "I want to sit at my desk, stay in my cubicle, work on my analysis/project, and only talk to other people when I absolutely have to. Sharing my findings with other people will just take time away from what I'm doing." I am not poking fun here. I actually see this mindset in some at work. It is frustrating to work with those who are so inflexible because I see the huge difference it makes when true collaboration with others either at work or within the rest of the IC takes place. Sometimes, the reason that I see these people take on that mindset is because their personality is truly a bit reclusive. (It is true that the IC as a whole attracts a lot of people who fit the profile of those who like to be alone at their computer all day. They do amazing work and are truly technical experts. We do need skilled technicians like this.) Other times though, the reason is that these people just don't get the big picture of what is happening and what needs to happen in the intelligence community. As Officers, our job is not to be the technician. If someone wants to be the expert technician, then they need to enlist. (I am currently a technician, and so I know what this involves. I also see the difference between what I do now and what I will do as an Officer. I am excited to get back to working in a job that deals more with looking at intelligence on a larger and broader scale.) The job of the technician is to create the dots; the job of the Officer is to connect them.

I like the concept of this school because it will reinforce early on the idea that we all have to work together in this community. However, I do agree that this course is still in a quasi state of being and hasn't been entirely figured out yet. This should come with time though. It will probably also require lots of evaluation feedback forms which will be quite fun to fill out. haha
 

LFCFan

*Insert nerd wings here*
There are some valid points in this article, but many of them can be explained away as the growing pains of developing structure for a relatively new corps community.
I can't get into the specifics of it, but trust me, cyber is a legitimate platform.
The author claims here that further integrating the community will hurt the specializations of its personnel, but every senior Intel and IW officer I've spoken to preaches the need for it, especially at the O-5 and above level.
Having already spent a good six years in the community at a variety of IDC-centric commands, I can honestly say that much of what is stated in the link you've posted is an "old-school" mentality. The author can rest assured that Information Dominance as a warfighting discipline isn't taking anything away from the enabler side of the house.

I don't think he's arguing that cyber isn't legitimate, just that we all don't do cyber so we aren't all some kind of "non-kinetic operations" force. I do see how the IW and CT communities are relevant to me as an intel O, since they are the SIGINTers of the Navy, but I don't see how the operations piece of cyber deals with what I do any more than actual kinetic operations. I even see how metoc shapes the battlespace like the threat does. I don't think this means that we are all one happy family.

I think his comment about "Do I worry about the Kilo sub or the broken email server" sums it up nicely. As in intel officer I already feel like everything I do is already broad and watered down enough as it is, I don't need to throw weather and IT support into the mix (which somehow a lot of people already think is what intel does) as I become more senior. Judging from your desire to go IW (and the background of PettyOfficerCJ) it is clear that you guys are from a different corner of the IDC, and I have yet to meet a single person in the intel community who isn't concerned with what the IDC is going to do to it. The IW, IP, and metoc communities stand to gain more than the intel community.

The O-5 and above level is the problem (usually). They don't see that sailors and junior officers are stretched thin in terms of expertise, and that in many ways we provide inferior to support compared to what other services have to offer because of the "jack of all trades" mentality.

usnavymie hit the mark with his post. Increased collaboration is becoming an even more important and integral part of the IDC. It is not just the IDC community within the Navy, but it is also the Intelligence Community as a whole. The push is for the CIA, NSA, FBI, NGA, (continue with all the other 3-letter agencies as well as additional intelligence organizations), to work collaboratively and share information and resources.

Integration with three letter agencies has nothing to do with the IDC whatsoever. I agree that working with them is a good thing, though.

There are some excellent tools now to enable such collaboration and many more are being developed. What usnavymie referred to as the "old school mentality" is the mentality of "I want to sit at my desk, stay in my cubicle, work on my analysis/project, and only talk to other people when I absolutely have to. Sharing my findings with other people will just take time away from what I'm doing." I am not poking fun here. I actually see this mindset in some at work. It is frustrating to work with those who are so inflexible because I see the huge difference it makes when true collaboration with others either at work or within the rest of the IC takes place. Sometimes, the reason that I see these people take on that mindset is because their personality is truly a bit reclusive. (It is true that the IC as a whole attracts a lot of people who fit the profile of those who like to be alone at their computer all day. They do amazing work and are truly technical experts. We do need skilled technicians like this.)

I don't see how this is relevant, as the whole point of the article is about supporting a strike group or other operations, not sitting in a cubicle. If your community has that problem, it doesn't need to drag my community in to fix it. I think if anything, your point just shows how different the IW/CT side of the house is from intel.

Other times though, the reason is that these people just don't get the big picture of what is happening and what needs to happen in the intelligence community. As Officers, our job is not to be the technician. If someone wants to be the expert technician, then they need to enlist. (I am currently a technician, and so I know what this involves. I also see the difference between what I do now and what I will do as an Officer. I am excited to get back to working in a job that deals more with looking at intelligence on a larger and broader scale.) The job of the technician is to create the dots; the job of the Officer is to connect them.

How effective am I supposed to be as an officer if I'm working with a bunch of technicians from areas that I know nothing about? How am I supposed to have an intelligent conversation (pardon the pun) about weather with an AG, or IT issues with an IT, when I'm an 1830 who suddenly is in charge and has to make decisions and recommendations to operators about what do to? How the hell is a weatherman supposed to say "CAG, I think the enemy is going to do XXXX on the strike" and understand the words coming out of this mouth? No one is arguing that officers are technicians. The argument is that stretching us even thinner than we are is going to backfire. I'd even argue that it would cost lives, because putting weathermen in charge of intel for ops is exactly the kind of thing being discussed.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
....The author can rest assured that Information Dominance as a warfighting discipline isn't taking anything away from the enabler side of the house.

Thanks, I needed my chuckle for the day!
 

usnavymle

Well-Known Member
How effective am I supposed to be as an officer if I'm working with a bunch of technicians from areas that I know nothing about? How am I supposed to have an intelligent conversation (pardon the pun) about weather with an AG, or IT issues with an IT, when I'm an 1830 who suddenly is in charge and has to make decisions and recommendations to operators about what do to? How the hell is a weatherman supposed to say "CAG, I think the enemy is going to do XXXX on the strike" and understand the words coming out of this mouth? No one is arguing that officers are technicians. The argument is that stretching us even thinner than we are is going to backfire. I'd even argue that it would cost lives, because putting weathermen in charge of intel for ops is exactly the kind of thing being discussed.

I haven't heard or seen anything that involves junior (new) 18XX officers working outside of their designator within the IDC. I know that some 1810's are encouraged to do tours at one particular 1830-heavy command, as well as 1830's integrating into NIOCs, but never junior METOC officers running SSES. That's why 1810s go to the big four first before anywhere else, and why they're required to complete IWO and IDC PQS during that first tour. In doing so, they get an idea, albeit a general one, about the other IDC areas. No, it's not perfect, but I think we'd both agree that, we're you, an 1830, put in charge of a SIGINT collection platform, you'd make sure you learned anything you didn't already know. And, both the Navy and myself know, or would like to believe that you and your peers could do this successfully; I've seen it done. Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't disagree that doing this on a larger scale would stretch some skillsets thin, but I think that's more of a budget issue than an IDC big-picture issue (we're all bring asked to do more with less lol).
But, again, everything I've seen and heard about integration is at the O-5 and above level. I've worked for an 1810 CO over an 1830 command, as well as an 1820 over an 1810 command. They both agreed that, when you've been in the community as long as they have, the overlap at the command level is substantial.
There's actually a good number of points on this I'd love to discuss, as the article is very well-written. I just can't collect and express my thoughts in an organized manner right now due to my son crying in my other arm lol.
 
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