Ifs

[HAL Pilot]

Heloanjin...you need to realize that those are cummulative. Your time for you private and instrument count towards your commercial. You don't need an additional 120 hours for your commercial. I think I got mine with around 130 hours but I'd have to check my log book for that and it's 800 miles away.

KSUFLY – You need to check your log books. Under part 61, you need 250 hours of flight time to obtain a commercial pilot certificate. Under part 141, you need 185 hours of flight time. I have taught under both parts.

You must have a commercial certificate to get a CFI. So the minimum flight time that a CFI would have when he initially obtained his ticket would be around 200 hours if all his training was under part 141 or over 250 hours if it was done part 61.

You are right that the time is cumulative. Under part 141 you need a minimum of 35 hours to get your private. To get your instrument, you need a private plus an additional 30 hours so you are now at a minimum of 65 hours. To get your commercial, you need the private and instrument plus an additional 120 hours. This is 185 hours minimum. However most pilots need more than the minimum to get all their tickets. My experience was that someone who trained private through commercial under part 141 had around 210 to 220 hours when they completed their commercial.

Many did combine their training getting their single and multi tickets in the process. You just have to be sure you hit all the individual wickets along the way (PIC, cross country, night, etc.) So many ended up with both when they completed with around 210-220 hours.

Here are the applicable regs:

Section 61.129: Aeronautical experience.
(a) For an airplane single-engine rating. Except as provided in paragraph (i) of this section, a person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating must log at least 250 hours of flight time as a pilot that consists of at least:

Section 61.183: Eligibility requirements.
To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating a person must:
(c) Hold either a commercial pilot certificate or airline transport pilot certificate with:

Section 141 Appendix B: Private Pilot Certification Course
1. Applicability. This appendix prescribes the minimum curriculum for a private pilot certification course required under this part, for the following ratings:
(a) Airplane single-engine.
(b) Airplane multiengine. ...........
3. Aeronautical knowledge training.
(a) Each approved course must include at least the following ground training on the aeronautical knowledge areas listed in paragraph (b) of this section, appropriate to the aircraft category and class rating:
(1) 35 hours of training if the course is for an airplane, rotorcraft, or powered-lift category rating.

Section 141 Appendix C: Instrument Rating Course
1. Applicability. This appendix prescribes the minimum curriculum for an instrument rating course and an additional instrument rating course, required under this part, for the following ratings:
(a) Instrument—airplane.......
2. Eligibility for enrollment. A person must hold at least a private pilot certificate with an aircraft category and class rating appropriate to the instrument rating for which the course applies prior to enrolling in the flight portion of the instrument rating course....................
3. Aeronautical knowledge training. (a) Each approved course must include at least the following ground training on the aeronautical knowledge areas listed in paragraph (b) of this section appropriate to the instrument rating for which the course applies:
(1) 30 hours of training if the course is for an initial instrument rating.

Section 141 Appendix D: Commercial Pilot Certification Course
1. Applicability. This appendix prescribes the minimum curriculum for a commercial pilot certification course required under this part, for the following ratings:
(a) Airplane single-engine.
(b) Airplane multiengine. .......
2. Eligibility for enrollment. A person must hold the following prior to enrolling in the flight portion of the commercial pilot certification course:
(a) At least a private pilot certificate; and
(b) If the course is for a rating in an airplane or a powered-lift category, then the person must:
(1) Hold an instrument rating in the aircraft that is appropriate to the aircraft category rating for which the course applies; or ........
4. Flight training. (a) Each approved course must include at least the following flight training, as provided in this section and section No. 5 of this appendix, on the approved areas of operation listed in paragraph (d) of this section that are appropriate to the aircraft category and class rating for which the course applies:
(1) 120 hours of training if the course is for an airplane or powered-lift rating.

 

[HAL Pilot]

If you do your flight training under Part 142 you can have your CFI in under 200 hours.

Yes but the total aeronautical experience requirement does not change. Anything not done in the aircraft must be done in an approved flight sim or flight training device. So while you have less flight time, your training time is the same. And an approved flight training device is not a PCATD (PC based Aviation Training Device).


Section 61.129: Aeronautical experience.

(i) Permitted credit for use of a flight simulator or flight training device. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, an applicant who has not accomplished the training required by this section in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter may:
(i) Credit a maximum of 50 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements for an airplane or powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought; and

(2) An applicant who has accomplished the training required by this section in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142 of this chapter may:
(i) Credit a maximum of 100 hours toward the total aeronautical experience requirements of this section for an airplane and powered-lift rating, provided the aeronautical experience was obtained from an authorized instructor in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents that class of airplane or powered-lift category and type, if applicable, appropriate to the rating sought; and

 

[HAL Pilot]

For those knocking civilian CFIs and their experience. I would venture to say that they have the same hours as a military pilot when he earns his wings. The difference is that the CFIs time (especially those that are a product of 141 schools) is spent completely on the basics (navigation, instruments, etc,) while the military pilot learns weapons, ACM, form, etc.

Further, most CFIs had to do their intial certification with a FAA checkairman. There is over a 50% pink slip rate on the first try. The FAA is pretty strict on issuing CFI tickets.

Also, the old SERGRAD program used to put newly winged NAs into IP slots. One of my IPs at VT-10 was a brand new SERGRAD with less than 400 hours of flight time (He told me I was his first stud).

So the CFI is qualified to teach primary flight instruction / IFS.

 

[Gatordev]

For those knocking civilian CFIs and their experience....

...So the CFI is qualified to teach primary flight instruction / IFS.

I think people are confusing "Standardization" and "Experience/knowledge." Your Sergrad example is the perfect comparison. Part of what makes flight school so good as well as "hard," is Stan. Everyone is held to the same standard (for the most part...yes, we all have our stories). Reading between the lines of the "sea stories" that studs like to tell me about IFS (and boy, I just LOVE to hear them, let me tell you...<yawn>) it's more of a Stan issue than a CFI being inept/uneducated.

 

[scoober78]

So the CFI is qualified to teach primary flight instruction / IFS.

So...in the interst of killing this thread...

Whether or not they should teach IFS...they do. Adapt, and overcome. That CFI still has more experience flying than you do...learn what you can and move the #$%^ on. Any other attitude seems like a collosal waste of time.

 

[KSUFLY]

Hal...maybe I do need to check my logbook. It's been a long time since I've looked at it and it's been about 4 years since I got my initial CFI. I know that as of right now I have some where around 700 hours but I'd have to double check as to how many I had when I got my CFI.

But for anyone that gets their CFI through a good school and a good check airmen...that's one thing you'll never let expire.

 

[Heloanjin]

Heloanjin...you need to realize that those are cummulative. Your time for you private and instrument count towards your commercial. You don't need an additional 120 hours for your commercial. I think I got mine with around 130 hours but I'd have to check my log book for that and it's 800 miles away.

Just read it again. Yep, I shouldn't have added it up. So, a CFI could start teaching with about the same amount of flight experience as a newly winged helo pilot. I still stand by my statement that most CFIs are competent at what they do.