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Illegal Killing?

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VarmintShooter

Bottom of the barrel
pilot
I kind of wonder if the marine wasn't thinking something like: this dude looks dead, wait a minute, he's not dead ... oh sh!t he's playing dead (and may be getting ready to cap my a$$) ...

Might fit with the verbalization.
 

Cate

Pretty much invincible
VarmintShooter said:
I kind of wonder if the marine wasn't thinking something like: this dude looks dead, wait a minute, he's not dead ... oh sh!t he's playing dead (and may be getting ready to cap my a$$) ...

Might fit with the verbalization.
I can very easily see that happening.
 

El Cid

You're daisy if you do.
VarmintShooter said:
I kind of wonder if the marine wasn't thinking something like: this dude looks dead, wait a minute, he's not dead ... oh sh!t he's playing dead (and may be getting ready to cap my a$$) ...

Might fit with the verbalization.
I think that what you just posted is more poignant than what people think at first glance. I genuinely think that this really gets to the root of the problem. What was he thinking and what have many others similar to him thought during other wars? I think that statement can account for a lot of actions that others have done. These things wouldn’t seem sane if we were walking down the street and saw it, but in a battlefield where the other side is not playing by the rules this makes sense.

Good post!
 

VetteMuscle427

is out to lunch.
None
You know, essentially, all the Marine has to say to satisfy most of us is "I felt he could have possibly posed a threat." I don't know anyone that would have the Marine err on the side of not protecting himself. <But maybe that is just because of my choice of friends?> It is a shame that all the people judging him have never been in his shoes.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
No bad judgement here. I think most of us are defending the Marine until someone can prove him guilty. You know, like you're supposed to do.
 

Slammer2

SNFO Advanced, VT-86 T-39G/N
Contributor
anyone see the stuff on this guy who video taped it being some kind of anti-war journalist? I'll try to find the sites where I read it. I've seen it a few times now.
 

Slammer2

SNFO Advanced, VT-86 T-39G/N
Contributor
Saw this on http://globalspecops.com/letters.html.

I've read similar thoughts on our website here too and wanted to post this one.

This is just one most don't hear:

A young Marine and his cover man cautiously enter a
room just recently filled with insurgents armed with
Ak-47's and RPG's. There are three dead, another
wailing in pain. The insurgent can be heard saying,
"Mister, mister! Diktoor, diktoor (doctor)!" He is
badly wounded, lying in a pool of his own blood. The
Marine and his cover man slowly walk toward the
injured man, scanning to make sure no enemies come
from behind. In a split second, the pressure in the
room greatly exceeds that of the outside, and the
concussion seems to be felt before the blast is heard.
Marines outside rush to the room, and look in horror
as the dust gradually settles. The result is a room
filled with the barely recognizable remains of the
deceased, caused by an insurgent setting off several
pounds of explosives.

The Marines' remains are gathered by teary eyed
comrades, brothers in arms, and shipped home in a box.
The families can only mourn over a casket and a picture
of their loved one, a life cut short by someone who hid
behind a white flag. But no one hears these stories,
except those who have lived to carry remains of a friend,
and the families who loved the dead. No one hears this,
so no one cares.

This is the story everyone hears:

A young Marine and his fire team cautiously enter a room
just recently filled with insurgents armed with AK-47's
and RPG's. There are three dead, another wailing in pain.
The insugent can be heard saying, "Mister,mister!
Diktoor, diktoor (doctor)!" He is badly wounded.
Suddenly, he pulls from under his bloody clothes a
grenade, without the pin. The explosion rocks the room,
killing one Marine, wounding the others. The young
Marine catches shrapnel in the face.

The next day, same Marine, same type of situation, a
different story. The young Marine and his cover man
enter a room with two wounded insurgents. One lies on
the floor in puddle of blood, another against the wall.
A reporter and his camera survey the wreckage inside,
and in the background can be heard the voice of a
Marine, "He's moving, he's moving!" The pop of a rifle
is heard, and the insurgent against the wall is now
dead.

Minutes, hours later, the scene is aired on national
television, and the Marine is being held for commiting
a war crime. Unlawful killing.

And now, another Marine has the possibility of being
burned at the stake for protecting the life of his
brethren. His family now wrings their hands in grief,
tears streaming down their face. Brother, should I
have been in your boots, i too would have done the
same.

For those of you who don't know, we are Marines, Band
of Brothers, Jarheads, Leathernecks, etc., do not fight
because we think it is right, or think it is wrong. We
are here for the man to our left, and the man to our
right. We choose to give our lives so that the man or
woman next to us can go home and see their husbands,
wives, children, friends and families.

For those of you who sit on your couches in front of
your television, and choose to condemn this man's
actions, I have but one thing to say to you. Get out
of you recliner, lace up my boots, pick up a rifle,
leave your family behind and join me. See what I've
seen, walk where I have walked. To those of you who
support us, my sincerest gratitude. You keep us alive.

I am a Marine currently doing his second tour in Iraq.
These are my opinions and mine alone. They do not
represent those of the Marine Corps or of the US
military, or any other.

Sincerely,
LCPL Schmidt
USMC


-Slammer
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
When the enemy hides behind the white flag of surrender or pretends to be wounded, in order to lure us in for a kill, the "civilized" rules of war are thrown out the window due to the actions of the enemy themself.
 

Cate

Pretty much invincible
Fly Navy said:
When the enemy hides behind the white flag of surrender or pretends to be wounded, in order to lure us in for a kill, the "civilized" rules of war are thrown out the window due to the actions of the enemy themself.
I don't know that you're throwing out the rules, in that case, so much as you're adhering to a set of rules appropriate for the new circumstances. I'll admit to prejudging just a bit when I first heard about the incident - I didn't condemn him for what he did, I just figured that it was okay for him to do the wrong thing in that particular situation. As more information becomes available, it seems more and more like he actually did the right thing under those circumstances. Which reminds me how important it is not to make assumptions without all available information - and underscores the importance of a full investigation.
 

Slammer2

SNFO Advanced, VT-86 T-39G/N
Contributor
Its also difficult to judge things when taken out of context. It's like an advertisement for a movie saying "This is one of the best movies...." and the real quote was "This is one of the best movies for me to poop on" (ok so apparently Triumph was the critic). Or another example...have a friend go up to a police officer and give him the finger and tell him to go f*** himself, and then start videotaping. Send in the footage as police abuse.
 

Fly Navy

...Great Job!
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Cate said:
I don't know that you're throwing out the rules, in that case, so much as you're adhering to a set of rules appropriate for the new circumstances.

Good point. A new set of rules is being played by here. The Japanese were famous for these rather... brutal forms of warfare (as if warfare isn't brutal already). These kind of tricks seem to ring of that nature.
 

El Cid

You're daisy if you do.
Slammer2 said:
Its also difficult to judge things when taken out of context. It's like an advertisement for a movie saying "This is one of the best movies...." and the real quote was "This is one of the best movies for me to poop on" (ok so apparently Triumph was the critic). Or another example...have a friend go up to a police officer and give him the finger and tell him to go f*** himself, and then start videotaping. Send in the footage as police abuse.
... and that pretty much sums up the "main stream" American media. Hey lets focus on one aspect of one situation and paint it as the norm! I say to the liberal media... "go f*ck yourself for a while and then you'll know how we feel."
 

snow85

Come on, the FBI would have given him twins!
just remember guys-- whether you think that what this Marine did was right or wrong-- very few people know what happened immediately preceeding the video footage, and immediately following it. the camera operator caught the 'right' moment on tape-- but no one knows what happened in the second before.
 

Godspeed

His blood smells like cologne.
pilot
"God has a hardon for marines, because WE KILL EVERYTHING WE SEE" -Don't know why I threw that famous quote in here, but I felt I needed to.

Perhaps at some other place at some other time, marines could enter a room, and not have to worry about their enemies lying on the ground with a grenade waiting. Nazi's wouldn't have even cowered to the level of drawing troops in to a wounded victim.

The point I am trying to make here, is that we are dealing with human f*cking garbage. In fact, in my humble opinion, we aren't even dealing with humans. If they are going lure troops in when we are trying to obide by the Geneva Conventions, then they are all to be shot, mercilessly, with no exceptions. Bare in mind folks, these were not innocent civilians, these are militants that were previously firing from this location before it was overrun.

Let god sort em' out.
 

zuggerat

Registered User
Godspeed said:
"God has a hardon for marines, because WE KILL EVERYTHING WE SEE" -Don't know why I threw that famous quote in here, but I felt I needed to.

Perhaps at some other place at some other time, marines could enter a room, and not have to worry about their enemies lying on the ground with a grenade waiting. Nazi's wouldn't have even cowered to the level of drawing troops in to a wounded victim.

The point I am trying to make here, is that we are dealing with human f*cking garbage. In fact, in my humble opinion, we aren't even dealing with humans. If they are going lure troops in when we are trying to obide by the Geneva Conventions, then they are all to be shot, mercilessly, with no exceptions. Bare in mind folks, these were not innocent civilians, these are militants that were previously firing from this location before it was overrun.

Let god sort em' out.

it's a rational tactic if u really think about it. its very efficient especially in that situation, killed 3 marines for the cost of one insurgent life, which in reality meant very little to those in command on their side. everyone is expendable to them, so using tactics that seem barbaric or grotesque to us are highly efficient and effective to them. why do you think hezbollah uses suicide bombings, its very efficient with respect to human resources. its what we in the political science field like to call rational choice and expected utility.
 
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