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Information Professional (IP) Discussion
- Thread starter william.thompsonj
- Start date
I can't confirm, but from discussion with one of my mentees and chatter in the Reserve IP MS Teams thread, Reserve IP leadership have recognised the problem and the schoolhouse had begun authorising deviations for Reservists to stay under the PCS length threshold.
Really fantastic move by the schoolhouse, being able to stay on TDY orders for the duration really simplifies things. I can't imagine how difficult the IP course would be for someone fresh into the fleet as a reservist if they had to treat it like a PCS.
Especially considering a reservist who has a mortgage and would need to also plan to rent a room etc all on a O-1 salary :
*estimated (net) salary (3287.55 - (3287.55 *0.22)
*dependent BAH 1671
*BAS 256.68
= $4,491.76 (net) or $2,245.88 (net) a pay check
... would be rough. I get that we signed up for it, but considering as far as I can tell IP's have the longest single course by a long shot this move makes sense.
There is a caveat, if you're a somewhat high-grade GS civilian the pay differential is actually a really nice benefit the TLDR being you can go on leave (Military Leave (ML) and(or) Annual (LA)) and double dip, or go Leave Without Pay (LWOP) and get a pay differential.
Let's examine a base GS-13, rest of US locality .. that's approximately $7017 (gross) monthly, and we know the O-1 (gross) monthly is $5215.23 (see above).
OPM divides those by the number of days monthly (there is an offset if you go on LA at anytime vice stay LWOP the whole month) to get a daily rate, then subtracts the day rates and if the civ pay is higher, you get the difference.
Assuming 30 days for ease our GS-13 day rate would be $233.9 and the O-1 day rate would be $173.84 a difference of $60.06 daily.
30 days of LWOP you'd get a differential of $1801.80 for that month.
I'd estimate to be approximately $5897.37 (net) or $2948.68 (net) a pay check. At that point you'd actually be getting a raise over your normal assumed net of $5473.26.
But even with the differential being off TDY orders would still hurt as you'd lose $96 a night for lodging and $55 a day for per diem (these are Norfolk numbers where I travel to for work mostly) which over 137 days is $20,687 of benefit (not including your two travel days per-diem ($90) and travel costs).
Sorry for the long post, just throwing out some possible gouge I've come across for anyone searching forums. I'm also certain these numbers would be "lower" as OPM (in my experience) will be sure to ensure they pay out as little extra benefit as possible.
OPM Reference
tl;dr: Aside from voluntary definite/indefinite recall orders, Reservists should never have to PCS.
Agree, but this is the Navy Reserve... Not exactly an agile organization
EugeneGreen
New Member
I realize this is almost a year out from your original post, but thank you for offering your time and energy. As you stated, IP seems to be one of those career fields where not much press is out there; a lot of generalities. I recently got accepted for OCS as an IPO and am excited to Join the Navy. I did Cyber Ops and other jobs in the Air Force (enlisted), as well as a variety of tech jobs in the civilian world.
1) Is Information Professional = Information Technology, like Servers, Networking, Computers, (NMCI), etc? Or DOD-type communication technology like SIPERNET, SATCOM, Radios, and other communication equipment typically used by the military? (or perhaps that's what Crypto does?)
2) How much hands-on do IP Officers get with technology, compared to Manager/Leader/Administrative responsibilities?
3) My understanding of the most recent IP "pipeline" is OCS (13 weeks) + IPBQ (20 weeks)? What are some other career steps after that?
4) How much a say do we have in duty locations? Is there a dream sheet program, or more the needs of the Navy?
5) What are some career mistakes to avoid, and smart career choices to make?
Again, thank you for your time and energy!
1. As a general rule of thumb, IPs manage the C4ISR infrastructure (radios, IT networks, etc.) while CWs/IWs/Cryppies perform "offensive" operations within the C4ISR domain.
2. If you want to turn wrenches or be the guy actually scrolling through log files, then you want to be an enlisted IT or DoD civilian. As an officer, you'll be expected to manage divisions and departments and your actual coding or troubleshooting will be minimal.
3. I'll wait for an actual IP to weigh in on training pipeline specific.
4. Depends on seniority, timing, and how badly they need you. There are billets you will absolutely have to fill in order to be competitive for promotion and that may mean you have to go somewhere you don't want to go due to how timing works out. Also, as a junior officer you will have less say than a more senior officer.
5. I'll wait for an actual IP to weigh in on career timing and progression.
william.thompsonj
Member
Eugene,
Apologies for the less than timely reply. For the answers your seek:
1) IP's manage the guys doing the computer work (servers, networks, crypto devices and keys, etc.)
2) At larger commands you'll never be allowed to touch the gear (NCTAMS, NCTS, Staff, etc.) but on a ship (DDG, CG, etc.) you will have the option to touch depending on the variant of CANES. Newer variants of CANES offer less and less administrative control for everyone including the ITs.
3) OCS is ideally 13 weeks, IP basic is at Dam Neck in Virginia for 20 weeks, and there are some other courses such as DIVO basic, IW basic, and probably something else I'm forgetting since it's been 4ish years since I did that. If you do KOAM it's another 4 weeks. They make you PCS since it's about 6 months so plan to PCS.
4) I've negotiated to get what I wanted every time I've gotten orders and I've had direct input on where I went. If you're lucky you'll get a location you like and do something you find interested. You can give a dream sheet to your detailer but it's better to look at exactly what billets are available around the time you PCS and ask the detailer for the billet you want, that's worked well for me.
5) Do all the things. Go all the places. Don't turn down an interesting opportunity the detailer offers you. Fear is the mind killer.
egiv
Well-Known Member
1810s as SSES DIVOs have been a thing for a long time, typically as a second tour after qualifying at a large NIOC. I personally think IPs should do it the same - not fair to send a first-tour to sea to play SWO without having a solid background in their job field first.
Unfortunately non-SWOs are no longer able to qualify OOD underway. I get why, but some of my fondest DDG memories as an IWO were on the bridge.
william.thompsonj
Member
I didn't see this until now so please forgive me for not responding. IP's should not normally fill a SES manager roll, that's normally an 1810 Crypy. I know of a few IP's who did the ship tour first but our pipeline is very NCTAMS/NCTS centric; doing a ship tour first makes getting qualified really difficult. From my understanding of the current pipeline IP's should do a shore tour first to get fully qualified, second tour DDG/ship, then followed on to either NPS or something else depending on needs of the individual/needs of the Navy.
RhodesReese
Well-Known Member
FYSA for prior enlisted applying for IP.
6820 Update: 6820 LDO sundown is not official until a NAVADMIN is released, however, we anticipate FY23 being the last board. Information Warfare Community values enlisted experience, as such, we anticipate an increase in CWO billets and have adjusted the draft OCS PA to allow applicants to apply with up to 10 years prior TIS.
6820 Update: 6820 LDO sundown is not official until a NAVADMIN is released, however, we anticipate FY23 being the last board. Information Warfare Community values enlisted experience, as such, we anticipate an increase in CWO billets and have adjusted the draft OCS PA to allow applicants to apply with up to 10 years prior TIS.
Revitalizing this thread.
-If any reservists have questions about the training pipeline, please let me know. You do NOT PCS, and you will get full per diem etc.
-For my current class, all of the AD attended DIVLOC, IWOBC, and then IPBC (order can change based on timing). The overwhelming majority of Ensigns are headed to NCTAMS/NCTS. One is headed to a ship. The redes folks (mostly SWOs) are headed shipboard.
-Last heard no IPs can get a SWO pin, we've all been told to focus completely on BQ and IWO only.
-A billet has been funded for the reservist modularization. It will be led by a single instructor full time. Don't expect this to be available until FY25, per schoolhouse.
-The course material (ILE) was recently chopped and will be bolstered. That should land sometime in FY24 and you can expect MUCH longer days.
If anyone has questions you can PM me, or ask here.
-If any reservists have questions about the training pipeline, please let me know. You do NOT PCS, and you will get full per diem etc.
-For my current class, all of the AD attended DIVLOC, IWOBC, and then IPBC (order can change based on timing). The overwhelming majority of Ensigns are headed to NCTAMS/NCTS. One is headed to a ship. The redes folks (mostly SWOs) are headed shipboard.
-Last heard no IPs can get a SWO pin, we've all been told to focus completely on BQ and IWO only.
-A billet has been funded for the reservist modularization. It will be led by a single instructor full time. Don't expect this to be available until FY25, per schoolhouse.
-The course material (ILE) was recently chopped and will be bolstered. That should land sometime in FY24 and you can expect MUCH longer days.
If anyone has questions you can PM me, or ask here.
FormerRecruitingGuru
Making Recruiting Great Again
SWO community changed their policy a few years ago. Only SWO Trainees (116X) can pursue and earn the SWO pin, no one else.
LDOs and CWOs are also excluded from the SWO pin.
@RhodesReese, Is there a waiver for TIS over 10 years. Any suggestion on doing again physics I&II & Calculus I & II that are over than 7 yrs?
I am working on IP package at the moment with PA-22 1820 guidance. Ty
RhodesReese
Well-Known Member
You can always try, but they are being very strict now on the TIS waivers for us priors. Worst they can say is no. But if they do, I would focus on making warrant. As for physics and calc, I never took them during college or Highschool. I got picked up for 1820 and commissioned last year. Feel free to PM if youd like me to take a look at your package and tell you what I think.