INTEL and Aviation Observers

[robav8r]

What is the frequency of occurrence of FNAEBs in the aviation community?

Very, very low.

 

[Brett327]

What is the frequency of occurrence of FNAEBs in the aviation community?

42.

 

[Hair Warrior]

42, aye. Sounds about the right amount for FWTFHBs.

 

[Griz882]

Sure, but wh

42.

Sure, but what percent of that 42 actually lose their wings?

 

[Pags]

Sure, but wh

Sure, but what percent of that 42 actually lose their wings?

42.

 

[Brett327]

It is not worthwhile to know any of these things.

 

[bubblehead]

Seriously, who gives a sh*t if someone loses their warfare qual?

 

[robav8r]

Seriously, who gives a sh*t if someone loses their warfare qual?

If someone loses their wings in aviation (NA/NFO) due to a FNAEB, it's a pretty big deal that probably has repercussions throughout the command.

 

[nittany03]

Seriously, who gives a sh*t if someone loses their warfare qual?

Losing flight status != losing wings. I can’t remember the exact verbiage from the FNAEB instruction. But if someone gets their wings pulled it’s for words to the effect of “willfully violating rules and regulations,” or “bringing disgrace upon Naval Aviation.”

If someone just has trouble making a qual in good faith, the Air Boss probably isn’t going to pull their wings just to humiliate them on their way out the door.

 

[bubblehead]

Losing flight status != losing wings. I can’t remember the exact verbiage from the FNAEB instruction. But if someone gets their wings pulled it’s for words to the effect of “willfully violating rules and regulations,” or “bringing disgrace upon Naval Aviation.”

If someone just has trouble making a qual in good faith, the Air Boss probably isn’t going to pull their wings just to humiliate them on their way out the door.

Well, we had some dip sh*t (Dorsey) who knowingly shot down a friendly and permanently injured someone for life. That idiot did not have his wings removed nor was he kicked out of Navy.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Per @TheBubba https://www.airwarriors.com/communi...-let-my-personal-issues-get-in-the-way.38050/

Possible FNAEB outcomes:
1. Retention of flight status, retain the right to wear wings
2. Retention of flight status (probationary), retain the right to wear wings
3. Retention of flight status, limited to UAS, retain the right to wear wings
4. Termination of flight status, retain the right to wear wings
5. Termination of flight status, termination of the right to wear wings

I think intelligence work needs something similar. Like many large enterprises, there are 0.5-4% of IC personnel who are either incompetent and/or lazy to the point where it could risk someone’s life or limb. They aren’t at risk of losing their clearance. They won’t get another FITREP (or equivalent) for several months (or don’t care what it says). But you sure as shit don’t want to give them any important assignments.

If they’re giving you the strike brief and pointing to you where the IADS are, and you worry they probably missed one or two SAMs, or got the range rings wildly wrong bc of units (km or nm), due to poor attention to detail — and this isn’t the first occurrence, do you really want them to brief you again tomorrow?

 

[Brett327]

incompetent and/or lazy to the point where it could risk someone’s life or limb.

There's already a mechanism for that - DFC.

 

[egiv]

volunteer to be the Command Security Manager and stand SDO on weekends.

Have fun with that...

 

[egiv]

I wish that the Intel pin did imply a baseline degree of competence. Unfortunately, as Bubblehead alluded to, that doesn’t seem to be the case. I’ve seen several less than competent Intel Os get pushed through the pipeline in the name of professional progression without anyone taking the time to assess their actual proficiency. It’s telling to me that all of the Weapons School Intel Os I worked with in my last job were prouder of their weapons school Intel patches than they were of earning their Intel pins. In the words of one (frankly the best Intel O I’ve worked with) “it felt like I actually had to earn this patch.”

It’s been discussed on this board before, but I feel like squadron AIs are done a disservice by being sent out to the fleet immediately post NIOBC. So much of their first tour progression hinges on their ability to learn on the fly and the mentorship that they receive from the squadron training o/tactics shop.

It also doesn’t help that it seems like the community values generalists over specialization. I think it’s a problem when a hard charging weapons school intel o is told he’s affecting his career progression by singing up for a tour in Fallon.

This is essentially what the Cryptologic Warfare community does, sending most new officers to NIOCs to learn their trade, get qualified, then get to the fleet with a baseline level of specialized knowledge. My qual (more the 1810 pre-requisite than the pin) was tough, which had a lot to do with our leadership at the time, but from what I hear it's now the norm across NIOCs. We all felt like we earned it, so it's disappointing (though not totally surprising) that it's not like that across the broader IWC.

 

[SynixMan]

Have fun with that...

If you ever go to a squadron, I’m sure you’ll be a hoot with JOPA. The Bankers hour Intel O who wears NWUs and is always “at the wing”. ??‍♂️