Is it wise to get civilian flight training before API?

[kmac]

DO not think that your flying for a $100 hamburger is going to help you because the cadence and conduct of the flights in Primary and advanced are 100% different.

Eh?

As far as bad habits, I'm not talking about Cessna time but commercial time. It takes a ton of time to form habits, and I doubt they could occur while flying light GA. And I don't think we're arguing on this point... I agree in that the OP should go fly even if only for the fun of it.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Here's an example of a bad habit that I can think of. When I started working on getting checked out in the mighty 152, I complied with the AIM recommended communication procedures for a non-tower controlled airport (with no FSS or Unicom). My instructor told me "we really don't announce our taxi here since we're such a small airport." I still do it, because that's what I was taught in flight school. What if you're taught not to do it from day one?

 

[bigstew60]

I am currently in IFS and they are making us do all calls. they tell us that it is optional at the smaller airports but it is a good habit to get used to. They are also trying to focus more on some of the basics that will help us in our military flight training. I think they mainly are doing this because they know we are going to military flight school after here but any other flight school that is not involved in the IFS program may not teach you some of the things they are teaching down here. Everyone who does not already have a ppl will have to go through IFS. you will log 25 hours and you must solo within 30 day and 13.5 hours. I would suggest you go to sportys.com and start studying for the FAA written exam.

 

[kmac]

They are also trying to focus more on some of the basics that will help us in our military flight training.

Care to provide any examples of this? Thanks.

 

[armada1651]

Maybe I'm not qualified to speak on this (as an SNA-select not even to API yet), but I think it depends heavily on the program. At a quality FAR 141 program, you shouldn't pick up many bad habits, but if you're taking lessons from some sketchy FBO down at BFE Municipal Field, you might. As a 141 student, I'm hoping I didn't pick up any bad habits. Our last chief instructor was a former P-3 pilot and I tend to think he preempted that pretty successfully - on stage checks, he would always tell us NROTC guys things like, "Keep in mind the Navy's gonna focus on this" or "When you get to Pensacola, make sure you stay on top of this." I guess time will tell.

 

[BENDER]

Maybe I'm not qualified to speak on this (as an SNA-select not even to API yet), but I think it depends heavily on the program. At a quality FAR 141 program, you shouldn't pick up many bad habits, but if you're taking lessons from some sketchy FBO down at BFE Municipal Field, you might. As a 141 student, I'm hoping I didn't pick up any bad habits. Our last chief instructor was a former P-3 pilot and I tend to think he preempted that pretty successfully - on stage checks, he would always tell us NROTC guys things like, "Keep in mind the Navy's gonna focus on this" or "When you get to Pensacola, make sure you stay on top of this." I guess time will tell.

I don't see how FAR141 or FAR61 would make a difference, considering it's private training and the only difference is I think +/- 5 hours and check points. I think it's more in the instructor/curriculum , and maybe the airspace class.

 

[puck_11]

I don't buy the "bad habit" arguement.

I don't buy the bad habit argument either. I came in with 500 hours along with a bunch of friends of mine. They all did fine. I could see the only problem being in primary in RIs, where instead of doing the 8 friggin' steps to figure out where you are and what heading you need to turn to to intercept or whatever, you just use your SA and get it done (like you do once you get past primary). It just comes down to learning it the Navy primary way, which if you put in a little bit of time shouldn't be a problem.

 

[MIDNJAC]

I don't see how FAR141 or FAR61 would make a difference, considering it's private training and the only difference is I think +/- 5 hours and check points. I think it's more in the instructor/curriculum , and maybe the airspace class.

Having gone through a part 141 program, I will say that I noticed the guys we picked up going into the commercial/IR syllabus who had recieved PPL's from 61 operations were a bit behind the power curve generally speaking. This is not to say that there weren't some who were up to speed.....I just noticed that their airwork was a little more sloppy. Blowing through assigned altitudes, inconsistent climbs/decents, strange power corrections, and a lot of colorful approaches. It's not about hours, it's about the quality of instruction and how thorough the curriculum is....which is partly what you were saying anyways.

 

[NozeMan]

Don't waste your money. As long as you're not an idiot, the IFS program will give you a descent intro to flying without costing you a dime (besides the travel part...).


.....but statistically speaking, 73.4% of jet guys had previous flight time that they paid out of pocket for....

 

[Gatordev]

I don't buy the bad habit argument either. I came in with 500 hours along with a bunch of friends of mine. They all did fine. I could see the only problem being in primary in RIs, where instead of doing the 8 friggin' steps to figure out where you are and what heading you need to turn to to intercept or whatever, you just use your SA and get it done (like you do once you get past primary). It just comes down to learning it the Navy primary way, which if you put in a little bit of time shouldn't be a problem.

So all the guys who aren't IPs say that bad habits don't exist, but the IP says it does. Interesting. There are bad habits. I had a lot of GA time prior to Primary. I had a few bad habits. Whether you CFIs want to admit it, you had bad habits, too. The trick is to quickly unlearn them, which it's obvious you guys did (you all got jet grades). The problem comes in when guys fall back on civilian habits and use them as a crutch. Not a huge deal on Fam 2 or 3. Kind of annoying when they've already solo'ed and are still falling back on them.

As many have said, this is all independent of whether you should go get flight time. If it interests you, have at it.

 

[Pcola04/30]

get all the flight time you can....I have always called bullshit on the 'its not needed, the program is designed....blah, blah blah..' Two things make you a better pilot: hard work prior to stepping into the cockpit (studying procedures, app. plates, proper pre-flight planning etc...) and experience.....get some experience before the microscope comes out. Period.