John Kerry on YouTube

[greysword]

I guess what I was trying to impress in my statement was the Spirit of the statement instead of simply reading it verbatum.

Generally, I listen to the exact words first, but most polititians require us to read between the lines to get the full understanding of what they actually mean. I do this with statements by both sides of the discusion.

I think if we put Kerry's words into the context he is most familiar with, the draft of the Vietnam War where this was very accurate, then it is not hard to extrapolate that he did not mean service members were stupid or idiots (as the hype seems to imply), rather that if students study and do well in school they are less likely to need the military instead of the military needing them.

I would also like to submit for discusion that if the country instituted a draft instead of an all volunteer force, what would the demographics look like in terms of education before entering versus after entering service?

If I may add, jamnww had a good point on my comment regarding the voice of those who had not previously served in the military. I certainly agree that all citizens have the option to voice their opinion on a topic. I also apologize if my comment sounded like I was belittling the President's Air Guard service, as I did not mean to do that. Given this, the concept brought up in Starship Troopers that those who serve gain citizenship is a bit enticing, though.

 

[Fly Navy]

rather that if students study and do well in school they are less likely to need the military instead of the military needing them.

Even if that WAS what he was implying, it's completely invalid. Last I checked, it's an all volunteer military. I did very well in high school and college. I didn't "need" the military. I chose to join. Big difference.

 

[Cate]

According to the Kerry camp (so grains of salt all around, if so desired), Kerry's prepared remarks for that speech said:

"Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

Which is a freaking wordy joke, way beyond the level of one-liner, but Kerry is a wordy guy. That version also matches the context of the other lines around it, where said that Bush used to live in the state of Texas and now lives in a state of denial.

I think that his initial response to it was a bit too aggressive for the circumstances, and I think that his apology came a bit too late, but I also think that this entire thing got bigger than it needed to be. Everybody heard hoofbeats, and they started looking for a zebra.

 

[Fly Navy]

"Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq. Just ask President Bush."

Yeah, that's not a joke. There is no way to make that a joke. It's a complete slam on the US Military. Apparently, when I get sent to the gulf in the future, I didn't study, I'm not smart, and I'm intellectually lazy? If he hadn't already, he just alienated the ENTIRE military vote if he thinks he has a chance at running for President.

 

[greysword]

Even if that WAS what he was implying, it's completely invalid. Last I checked, it's an all volunteer military. I did very well in high school and college. I didn't "need" the military. I chose to join. Big difference.

I think you hit an important point, sir. You chose to because you wanted the military, but you didn't need the military to make it through college.

Please also note that whenever someone posts on this board that they are in college or finishing college and trying to decide whether enlistment is best to get to a commission, the majority of the replies suggest the applicant put in for an officer program and skip the enlistment.

In support of the mindset I mentioned, my sister is a senior in high school and was talking to a Navy enlisted recruiter. She has awesome grades with many advanced and college level courses taken while in high school, she has multiple volunteer work beginning in middle school and she is a cheerleader (which may count as athetics). I put up a severe argument about going straight to college and getting a commission instead of simply enlisting becase she studied hard and set herself up for success with her activities. She does not need the military to get through college, because she has the Florida Bright Futures scholarship waiting for her. She simply chooses to be in the military after college.

I, however, was not very motivated in school and got terrible grades. Not being athletic nor having any volunteer or extra-curricular activites to make a scholarship application competative, my best chance to going to college was through the GI Bill. I also joined because I felt it was my duty, but being an officer and going straight into college was not attainable at that time.

I guess this is why I am playing devil's advocate and want to try and clarify what I read instead of just the surface statement and what the press is making this out to be.

Right or wrong, I still think Kerry has a point (whether intended or not) that we may be in Iraq for a long time, and students in school now have an opportunity to shape their future so that they don't need the military, rather the military will need them and they can join if they want instead of needing to in order to attend college.

 

[Fly Navy]

Right or wrong, I still think Kerry has a point (whether intended or not) that we may be in Iraq for a long time, and students in school now have an opportunity to shape their future so that they don't need the military, rather the military will need them and they can join if they want instead of needing to in order to attend college.

I know what you're saying, but I think it's an anachronism. Military numbers do fluctuate with the economy. When it's worse, people tend to go to the military, when it's better, they stay civilian. It has a historical trend. Right now, the economy is strong (stock market, unemployment, anyone anyone?) AND there is not a draft. Doing poorly in school, while it may not set you up for college, there is plenty out there to go to besides the military. I think Kerry is alluding to what happened in Vietnam. While some may say there are parallels of this war to Vietnam, draft/enlisting is NOT one of them, that's for sure.

Senator Kerry said something stupid. Maybe he didn't read his speech beforehand? It's going to cost him.

 

[Birdman]

I was under the impression that we were trying to foster a warrior culture in the military and not a bunch of vaginized men who get pregnant with their wives.

Brett

You didn't get pregnant, your wife did. Do you menstruate with your wife too? How about the menopause - is that in your future as well?

Awesome, REP points:icon_smil

 

[greysword]

Which is a freaking wordy joke, way beyond the level of one-liner, but Kerry is a wordy guy. ...but I also think that this entire thing got bigger than it needed to be. Everybody heard hoofbeats, and they started looking for a zebra.

I agree with your statement. Honsetly, I do not believe it was a joke initially. I think he said it was supposed to be a joke later after the heat was on. I did not read it as a joke.

I also agree that the statement got much more attention then it should have received, and was used to deflect some of the negative attention on the Republican party by the media.

 

[greysword]

I know what you're saying, but I think it's an anachronism. ...I think Kerry is alluding to what happened in Vietnam. While some may say there are parallels of this war to Vietnam, draft/enlisting is NOT one of them, that's for sure.

Senator Kerry said something stupid. Maybe he didn't read his speech beforehand? It's going to cost him.

Thank you for getting my point and aligning your thoughts to address it directly.

I agree that he said something stupid in the context of today's environment, and I do not agree with Kerry's statement. You are correct that this war is not Vietnam in that we do not have a draft, so he should not reference that time period in an effort to bash the President.

The number of people qualified for military service is relatively low in comparison to the general population. I found a study from 1990 that basically says that only about 1/10th of the civilian population is even eligible for military service, and I know the requirements have tightened in regards to intelligence and education since then.

http://www.ijoa.org/imta96/paper29.html

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), Kerry only has to reflect the views of his constituency, which is the State of Massachusetts. I live in Colorado, so he does not speak for me

Wow, this was my 100th post on Airwarriors. I apologize for being heard instead of just seen :tongue2_1 . Can I have a gold star?

 

[Cate]

Yeah, that's not a joke. There is no way to make that a joke. It's a complete slam on the US Military. Apparently, when I get sent to the gulf in the future, I didn't study, I'm not smart, and I'm intellectually lazy? If he hadn't already, he just alienated the ENTIRE military vote if he thinks he has a chance at running for President.

No, it was just a poorly-told joke. He was trying to indicate that, by not "doing his homework" and by being "intellectually lazy" about the situation in the Middle East, President Bush got us stuck in Iraq. It's a joke at the expense of the president, it followed a joke at the expense of the president, and neither was a funny joke. So we'll make John Kerry promise to never, ever, ever go on Comedy Central, and he'd probably be better off not trying to speak when there's a live mike in front of him. But beyond that, this thing has really gotten bigger than it needed to, and it's a distraction from a lot of far more important issues four days out from the midterm elections.

 

[Fly Navy]

The number of people qualified for military service is relatively low in comparison to the general population. I found a study from 1990 that basically says that only about 1/10th of the civilian population is even eligible for military service, and I know the requirements have tightened in regards to intelligence and education since then.

I saw a report the other day that said 2/3rds of America's teens are inelligible for military service because they're too fat. I believe it.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), Kerry only has to reflect the views of his constituency, which is the State of Massachusetts. I live in Colorado, so he does not speak for me

Hey now, I'm from MA. I'm hardly your typical MA native though And you Colorado types have a whole different spectrum to deal with... the Greenies! RUN!

 

[greysword]

Hey now, I'm from MA. I'm hardly your typical MA native though And you Colorado types have a whole different spectrum to deal with... the Greenies! RUN!

Yeah, my wife is a solid Republican from...Oregon?! Yep, I'll probably end up there sometime in the too near future. They pass crazy laws.

As for the Greenies in Colorado, most of them were exiled to Boulder. Seriously, it's like a smaller version of Berkley.

 

[Banjo33]

No, it was just a poorly-told joke. He was trying to indicate that, by not "doing his homework" and by being "intellectually lazy" about the situation in the Middle East, President Bush got us stuck in Iraq. It's a joke at the expense of the president, it followed a joke at the expense of the president, and neither was a funny joke. So we'll make John Kerry promise to never, ever, ever go on Comedy Central, and he'd probably be better off not trying to speak when there's a live mike in front of him. But beyond that, this thing has really gotten bigger than it needed to, and it's a distraction from a lot of far more important issues four days out from the midterm elections.

It got bigger than it should have when he started finger pointing rather than man-up and be honest about making a mistake. No one's fault but his own.

 

[Stubby]

Its amazing how we get from John Kerry to "Vaginized men".

I see the connection.

It got bigger than it should have when he started finger pointing rather than man-up and be honest about making a mistake. No one's fault but his own.

Amen to that.

 

[Lawman]

I saw a report the other day that said 2/3rds of America's teens are inelligible for military service because they're too fat. I believe it.

Yeah I think a great arguement for not reinstituting the draft would be made if you just went into a Target at 7pm on a Saturday, took every person in their and lined them up, and then asked yourself what would the military be if it was made up of these people..... That oughta end that draft idea real quick.