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Just a rant

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
"Skin in the game"? No. I don't think that is what it means at all. As noted, there is plenty skin in the game for some. If it were an all air campaign like in the Balkans would there not be skin in the game. Does it mean increased risk, additional expense, or longer term commitment over the proposed action? How does referring to our ground combat forces as "protective footwear that covers a portion of the leg" communicate precisely enough for the gravity of the debate? Of course it isn't meant to be literal. But shouldn't they be literal and precise? Does no boots on the ground mean no special forces for targeting or training? If an aviator is shot down does it mean they won't send a CSAR or other recovery mission because that would put boots on the ground, if even temporarily. What is wrong with referring to the "boots" as "deployed ground combat forces", or the combined combat arms of our land forces." For those that suppose boots on the ground is short hand for simple minded Americans then just say Marines and Army. These people are educated. Simply good rhetoric and style would lend one to not use the same phrase or word over and over again and again.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
We need to do what's best for main street, not wall street. We need to know the situation on the ground in Syria, at ground zero, with boots on the ground. It's a game changer. It was a red line, and frankly Syria-gate is wagging the dog. We need to outsource a no fly zone.
 
Meh. I'd just like to see them actually DO something, rather than yak about it for weeks and come up with some "resolution" that doesn't really mean anything. Their buzzwords and expressions mean nothing to me, they are so out of touch with us and what we do.

IMHO, the moment is gone for action in Syria, at this point it's just going to involve us in yet another brushfire war with no winner. Had we acted immediately, I might feel differently, but as any comedian will tell you: timing is everything. Two freakin' weeks have passed and the moment's gone. Oh-Drama can bluster and petition Congress, but it ultimately isn't going to solve anything at this point.

Syria is just using this time to put their put their forces in a more protective posture, including putting them into school zones, etc.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Syria is just using this time to put their put their forces in a more protective posture, including putting them into school zones, etc.
Ha! Played right into our hands. Now we can bomb them for going over 15 mph or passing.
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
And let's not forget about the "battleships" we have off the coast of Syria. I mean....really??
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
For better or worse (probably better…), the term "boots on the ground" is simply shorthand...I've never had a problem with the term…even though, as we all know, "skin in the game" can and does happen without "boots on the ground".
"Skin in the game"? No. I don't think that is what it means at all. As noted, there is plenty skin in the game for some. If it were an all air campaign like in the Balkans would there not be skin in the game. ...If an aviator is shot down does it mean they won't send a CSAR or other recovery mission because that would put boots on the ground, if even temporarily.

You and I thunderously agree. Although I admit to not quite understanding your angst at the use of the term "boots…". Yes, I have already read all of your posts on the issue.

But…you admitted up-front that this was just a rant.
 

jmcquate

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Maybe it's a flash back to this
???
When the 'arf-made recruity goes out to the East
'E acts like a babe an' 'e drinks like a beast,
An' 'e wonders because 'e is frequent deceased
Ere 'e's fit for to serve as a soldier.
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
So-oldier ~OF~ the Queen!

Now all you recruities what's drafted to-day,
You shut up your rag-box an' 'ark to my lay,
An' I'll sing you a soldier as far as I may:
A soldier what's fit for a soldier.
Fit, fit, fit for a soldier . . .

First mind you steer clear o' the grog-sellers' huts,
For they sell you Fixed Bay'nets that rots out your guts --
Ay, drink that 'ud eat the live steel from your butts --
An' it's bad for the young British soldier.
Bad, bad, bad for the soldier . . .

When the cholera comes -- as it will past a doubt --
Keep out of the wet and don't go on the shout,
For the sickness gets in as the liquor dies out,
An' it crumples the young British soldier.
Crum-, crum-, crumples the soldier . . .

But the worst o' your foes is the sun over'ead:
You ~must~ wear your 'elmet for all that is said:
If 'e finds you uncovered 'e'll knock you down dead,
An' you'll die like a fool of a soldier.
Fool, fool, fool of a soldier . . .

If you're cast for fatigue by a sergeant unkind,
Don't grouse like a woman nor crack on nor blind;
Be handy and civil, and then you will find
That it's beer for the young British soldier.
Beer, beer, beer for the soldier . . .

Now, if you must marry, take care she is old --
A troop-sergeant's widow's the nicest I'm told,
For beauty won't help if your rations is cold,
Nor love ain't enough for a soldier.
'Nough, 'nough, 'nough for a soldier . . .

If the wife should go wrong with a comrade, be loath
To shoot when you catch 'em -- you'll swing, on my oath! --
Make 'im take 'er and keep 'er: that's Hell for them both,
An' you're shut o' the curse of a soldier.
Curse, curse, curse of a soldier . . .

When first under fire an' you're wishful to duck,
Don't look nor take 'eed at the man that is struck,
Be thankful you're livin', and trust to your luck
And march to your front like a soldier.
Front, front, front like a soldier . . .

When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
She's human as you are -- you treat her as sich,
An' she'll fight for the young British soldier.
Fight, fight, fight for the soldier . . .

When shakin' their bustles like ladies so fine,
The guns o' the enemy wheel into line,
Shoot low at the limbers an' don't mind the shine,
For noise never startles the soldier.
Start-, start-, startles the soldier . . .

If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!
Rudyard Kipling

Policy by Kipling is not what we do.........nice find though.
 

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
pilot
None
Contributor
Policy by Kipling is not what we do.........nice find though.


Fyi, that poem has a deeper and alternate meaning to most of us with wings than what you realize. It's an inside joke that can't be accurately explained unless you have literally been there, done that.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
So what's this alternate meaning? I have wings and have been there and done that in the air and on the ground. Does it require a Dick Tracy Decoder Ring? Mine's broken, I guess. And I generally hate poetry, but that's just me.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
So what's this alternate meaning? I have wings and have been there and done that in the air and on the ground. Does it require a Dick Tracy Decoder Ring? Mine's broken, I guess. And I generally hate poetry, but that's just me.

It's not our fault your service is too poor to help you get the joke.

(Really, it's just a SERE reference).
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Oh, that. Rings a very old bell for me.

I thought he was saying there was some bizarro Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds-type double meaning that only seasoned aviators would understand. Which would be strange, since I think it was written before airplanes were a thing.
 

helolumpy

Apprentice School Principal
pilot
Contributor
Wink stated he hated the term "boots on the ground". R1 asked him if he had a problem with the word "boots".
My post was to simply suggest a reason that he may hate the term "boots" is that poem we were forced to listen to.
 
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