Landing Question Regarding Accident

[DanMa1156]

I'm not sure how many of you have seen it, but it was on one of those "Anatomy of a Carrier" shows or something along those lines that repeats on the Military Channel all the time... Anyway, the incident was on September 11, 2003 (according to the show) and I believe the ship was the George Washington -- an F/A-18 trapped, but the wire snapped, and a few of deck crew were able to avoid terrible injuries by jumping the wire, although it did say I think 6 or 7 sailors were seriously wounded. This is what the show focused on, but my question regards the pilot who ejected -- it didn't show his burners going on or anything, I thought you guys hit the deck and go to full power/burner just in case you don't trap, or like in this case, the aircraft snaps the wire.

Not trying to start a fight, blame anyone on the incident, just wondering about what happens when you land aboard.

 

[HeyJoe]

A normal landing on carrier by a fixed wing aircraft does include going to full power upon landing in case of a bolter (missed wire) or in this case, a parted wire. Full power means MRT (military rated thrust) or in afterburner equipped aircraft, full "dry" thrust. The danger of snapped wire is that it can slow aircraft enough before it parts that an aircraft can be in a dark hole of being too fast to stop with brakes and too slow to get enough airspeed to take off. A similiar pitfall can happen with a bad or cold cat shot. I didn't see this show so won't speculate. In any case, if the Air Boss calls for ejection, the decision is made for the aircrew. Sounds like it might have been this one that was posted in this thread: http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9803

A parted cable is bad news for the aircraft and anyone standing anywhere near it as it whips across the flightdeck. It can literally cut a person in two or mahgle them severely. On the occasions where I had to man up before recovery concluded, I always watched the landing aircraft and tried to keep some heavy steel object between the wire and my body. The flight deck is easy described as "the land of the quick and the dead (or injured)". It's not for amateurs and everyone up there needs to keep their head on a swivel.

 

[Tom]

Yeah, I saw that program as well. I found it pretty interesting in describing the rest of the jobs on a carrier. I have two guesses. First, the shot was directly behind the aircraft and maybe the afterburner wasn't that visible. Second, maybe the pilot felt the deceleration and pulled the throttle back.

 

[SteveG75]

Yeah, I saw that program as well. I found it pretty interesting in describing the rest of the jobs on a carrier. I have two guesses. First, the shot was directly behind the aircraft and maybe the afterburner wasn't that visible. Second, maybe the pilot felt the deceleration and pulled the throttle back.

Read the above post.

1. Pilots go to full military power when they trap NOT afterburner. You don''t need afterburner and it will use gas that you WILL need if you bolter.

2. Any pilot that pulls the throttles back before being given the signal by the guys on deck is asking for a FNAEB and a quick trip home.

 

[DanMa1156]

Thanks for the answers guys, but real quick, what's an FNAEB?

 

[HeyJoe]

Fnaeb

Thanks for the answers guys, but real quick, what's an FNAEB?

When you do something that brings into question your continued ability to fly, the CO can convene a FNAEB (Field Naval Aviator Evaluation Board...pronounced Fee Nab) or as it is commonly referred to "the long green table". See http://www.vnh.org/FSManual/15/08Fitness.html for gory details of who convenes and what the membership is composed of. They are painfully detailed and can result in loss of flight status, remedial program or even loss of right to wear wings. Sort of like an inquisition. Results get set up the line and 3 star at CNAF determines final status...he can over turn recommendations and sometimes does.

 

[bunk22]

Thanks for the answers guys, but real quick, what's an FNAEB?

To add on the FNAEB, the outcomes are broken down like this (I'm paraphrasing so actual definitions might be off a bit but in general, I think it's accurate):

A-1: Not pilot error, continue flying.
A-2: Pilot error, continue flying but in a different platform.
A-4: Pilot error, continue flying but with a probation period.

B-1: Pilot error with negligence. Loss of flight status but keep wings.
B-2: Pilot error with negligence. Loss of flight status and wings.

By the way, the sailor hurt the most on the above mishap was a chief from VAW-120. A COD had just completed either a bolter or touch-n-go when the Hornet landed and ended up in a mishap. The chief was badly injured but survived and was medically retired.

 

[DanMa1156]

Thanks guys for the answers; very detailed! Thanks alot!

And man, that must suck to lose your wings -- this happen often where FNAEBs are required?

 

[HeyJoe]

Once upon a time, like 40s - 60s, you could do low levels in Grand Canyon or Loop the Golden Gate Bridge, but flathatting and hazarding yourself or others is not tolerated anymore and is a sure ticket to the long, green table. Most folks end up there are top 5% pressing the limits of the rule set trying to stay ahead of others, middle of the pack trying to emulate the top of the pack and not having skillset or bottom 5% who lose an aircraft or come close (this is from Admiral at Safety Center's analysis some years back). Some folks in TACAIR are "invited" to join a multi-piloted community if skills aren't there, every community has someone who lost their wings or kept them and stopped flying (one of best intel types out there lost his wings in FRS after losing a jet, but stayed in service). There's a million stories in the big city or something like that. It's not a draconian thing hanging over your head so do your best and stay away from the "What would Grampaw Pettibone say?" stuff.

 

[HeyJoe]

Yeah, I saw that program as well. I found it pretty interesting in describing the rest of the jobs on a carrier. I have two guesses. First, the shot was directly behind the aircraft and maybe the afterburner wasn't that visible. Second, maybe the pilot felt the deceleration and pulled the throttle back.

I just saw it and the Hornet was at end of runout when the cable parted. Burner would not have helped...too fast to stop in remaining amount of flightdeck and too slow to regain flying speed. Either Boss told him to exit stage left or he made the call. Looked like he barely made it out before nose started tipping over and edge of ejection envelope was breached.

 

[eddie]

Looked like he barely made it out before nose started tipping over and edge of ejection envelope was breached.

What would have happened if he didn't/what is the ejection envelope? I haven't seen the video, maybe it would be obvious from the footage.

 

[HeyJoe]

Even though ejection seats are touted to have zero-zero capability (that is zero airspeed and zero altitude), there is a performance envelope associated with that, which simply put, with most lastest generation seats, means straight and level and no descent (most boldface saws out of control passing 10K, eject to allow for seat man separation and deployment of the chute, etc). If an aircraft is rolling over the side, the envelope usually doesn't cover too many degrees nose or wing down, if any. S-3 is very limited in this regard. Envelope also covers speed as above certain speeds, injuries can result to flailing of libs induced by windblast and drogue/parachute can fail to deploy properly. Aircraft have envelopes as well and both are studied from day one of training.

 

[airwinger]

I believe you can read the pilot's approach article about it here
http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/media/approach/issues/marapr05/AverageIQ.htm

But I only vaguely recall the show and thus can't be certain.
P.S
The approach vault is a great place to learn ready room gouge
http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/media/approach/vault/default.htm

After reading about the spate of prowler stab aug problems, I understood why engaging it is a very formalized event.

 

[ChunksJR]

And man, that must suck to lose your wings -- this happen often where FNAEBs are required?

Not always...and the FNAEB doesn't actually take the wings. The CNO (or delegated NAVAIR) does. I was on the FNAEB for the "Superman" Flight and we recommend which catagory to assign (A-1, A-2, etc) to the chain-of-command starting with the operational wing in charge of the squadron and ending with the CNO.

And a FNAEB is always required in a Class "A" mishap (either $1 million in damage or loss of life).

 

[HeyJoe]

Not always...and the FNAEB doesn't actually take the wings. The CNO (or delegated NAVAIR) does.

For the record to forestall any confusion with "NAVAIR": FNAEB goes through chain to Commander Naval Air Force, the "lead" Type Commander (TYCOM), which is composed of former "AIRLANT" and "AIRPAC" and reports through CNAF to Commander Fleet Forces Command (CFFC). CNAF is currently VADM Zortman who operates out of AIRPAC spaces and RADM Starling sits in AIRLANT spaces at Norfolk. All mishap reporting goes through respective LANT and PAC chains (so in some respects they still operate as LANT and PAC entitites). "NAVAIR" is Naval Air Systems Command based at NAS Patuxent River and led by VADM Massenburg. NAVAIR does acquisition "things" and is not in mishap or FNAEB endorsement chain.