Leaving Vietnam vs AFG

[taxi1]

I'll take your word for it that we did

You can google it.

US left Afghan airfield at night, didn't tell new commander

Afghan military officials say the U.S. left Afghanistan’s Bagram Airfield after nearly 20 years by slipping away in the night, without notifying the base’s new Afghan commander.

apnews.com

I have nowhere near enough info to understand why we would do that. I don't know is my answer.

Right, I don't know the details either. I do know it was a planned action.

Now your turn. Why would Biden lie in a written speech on national TV and say this did not go according to plan if it did in fact go to plan?

I don't think it did "go to plan" as hoped for, which is that the Afghan forces would at least act as an absolute bare minimum as a speed bump while we got our forces out. But the other guys get a vote too, and the Taliban and the Afghan government(s) voted to collapse. We responded. There was a reason we had forces staged off the coast and in the Gulf for a quick reaction. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

The very worst hasn't happened, by the way.

I'm not saying the closing game here wasn't fubar. I am saying that these sorts of things are hugely unpredictable. "Gradually, then suddenly" to paraphrase Hemingway. The fall of the Berlin Wall. The fall of the Soviet Union. The fall of the Taliban 20 years ago. ISIS coming into Iraq. And now the fall of the central Government of Afghanistan. They didn't even fight. WTF?

The sneaking out of Bagram in the middle of the night was a big "tell" that we considered them unreliable partners, and that our departure was going to be weird. Who does that to an "ally"?

But the leaving out of the Afghan government itself in negotiations with the Taliban set the stage. who does that to an ally? What sort of loyalty do you think they had with us after they got to watch the Doha negotiations from outside? Think they saw us as unreliable partners? Think the Taliban didn't use that as a huge wedge? They're not stupid. We already killed the stupid ones.

I'm 1000% sure the current hot-takes are all wrong, though. They always are.

 

[Mirage]

Sounds like things progressed as planned.

I agree with most of what you're saying now, but you have completely changed your tone from just a few posts ago. Or perhaps the above quote from your post didn't come off as you intended?

Saying this all progressed as planned is very different than saying "these sorts of things are hugely unpredictable".

In my opinion our big mistake was letting Afghanistan become the career-making self-licking ice cream cone that it has been for 18+ years. We should never have sent anyone there except SOF, with few exceptions. Hopefully if there's a next round we will have learned that lesson.

 

[taxi1]

I agree with most of what you're saying now, but you have completely changed your tone from just a few posts ago. Or perhaps the above quote from your post didn't come off as you intended?

Saying this all progressed as planned is very different than saying "these sorts of things are hugely unpredictable".

We'll see in a few weeks. We got out as we wanted, and the Taliban got their Islamic Republic as they wanted, minimal fighting and deaths. The transition has been unpredictable for sure. I wonder if the Taliban themselves were surprised at the collapse.

We're in a really strange moment here. Things hang in the balance.

I didn't know Qatar had C-17s. There's one on deck in Kabul.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

C-17 hydraulics are stronger than desperate Afghans. I guess they were ready to pick up the corpse under the approach corridor to Al Udeid or Al Dhafra or wherever they went because it was part of the plan.

 

[RobLyman]

Just as a point of reference...we actually did sneak out of parts of Iraq in the dead of night. Once Baghdad closed, the southern FOB/bases snuck out. It was 3:00 am when we left Diwo in 2011 with only three medevac Black Hawks and five MRAPS. Similar for Al Kut, Gary Owen, Kalsu, and later Talil.
So the manner in which we 'snuck' out of Bagram isn't particularly telling.

 

[Griz882]

On the bright side I wonder how long it will take the Taliban to ruin the A-29's, C-27's, UH-60's, C-130's, MD-530's and other Soviet era crap we left behind? Unlike VN, we won't be seeing a daring ANA colonel fly his family to a carrier in a Super Tacano nor will we see helicopters being shoved over the side to make room for UH-60's.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Unlike VN, we won't be seeing a daring ANA colonel fly his family to a carrier in a Super Tacano

Pretty sure he would have offed himself halfway down the BLVD, having to listen to Karachi CTR's nonsense....

 

[Griz882]

The way we left Bagram, in the middle of the night with no big parade and passing of flags and shaking of hands...that tells me that we knew what was going down.

Just out of curosity, when have we ever left a place with a parade, passing of flags, and shaking of hands? I mean with the exception of Vietnam and Afghanistan we pretty much still have a thumb in every pie we've touched since the 1940's and even Vietnam is about to change. Indeed, we still have guys reporting to KFOR!

Still, I do love the image and that is prt of the problem...a parade is what we imagine is victory.

 

[Griz882]

Well, at least Janet Yellen was paying attention!

Taliban’s access to cash limited as Biden administration freezes Afghan reserves - The Washington Post

 

[TF7325]

On the bright side I wonder how long it will take the Taliban to ruin the A-29's, C-27's, UH-60's, C-130's, MD-530's and other Soviet era crap we left behind? Unlike VN, we won't be seeing a daring ANA colonel fly his family to a carrier in a Super Tacano nor will we see helicopters being shoved over the side to make room for UH-60's.

Looks like they’re going to pieces of scrap metal pretty soon, if not already.

B-52 bombers head to Afghanistan

B-52 bombers head to Afghanistan

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

 

[Griz882]

Looks like they’re going to pieces of scrap metal pretty soon, if not already.

B-52 bombers head to Afghanistan

B-52 bombers head to Afghanistan

ukdefencejournal.org.uk

Well, if that is true it will certainly leave a mark!

 

[Treetop Flyer]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1427693329249099795

10-15,000 Americans left in Afghanistan? Get to the airport, but you’re on your own getting there and good luck? All part of the plan. Totally inevitable.

 

[taxi1]

Just out of curosity, when have we ever left a place with a parade, passing of flags, and shaking of hands?

Hopefully there was some delicious sheet cake there...

The task of turning the base over to Iraqi Security Forces was an intensive effort and one final opportunity to demonstrate the commitment and dedication the Coalition had to the Iraqi base. The turnover culminated in an official transfer ceremony Aug. 23, 2020, marking the eighth transfer of a Coalition base under the partnership between the Iraqi Security Forces and the international counter-Daesh military Coalition.

Teamwork enables successful transfer of Camp Taji

Camp Taji served as a pivotal site for planning countless counter-Daesh missions in support of Combined Joint Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve. It’s fitting that the last mission planned by the

www.centcom.mil

 

[Griz882]

Hopefully there was some delicious sheet cake there...

The task of turning the base over to Iraqi Security Forces was an intensive effort and one final opportunity to demonstrate the commitment and dedication the Coalition had to the Iraqi base. The turnover culminated in an official transfer ceremony Aug. 23, 2020, marking the eighth transfer of a Coalition base under the partnership between the Iraqi Security Forces and the international counter-Daesh military Coalition.

Teamwork enables successful transfer of Camp Taji

Camp Taji served as a pivotal site for planning countless counter-Daesh missions in support of Combined Joint Task Force Operation Inherent Resolve. It’s fitting that the last mission planned by the

www.centcom.mil

Sure, on a small real estate basis, but we still have 2000 to 3000 personell in Iraq. So really...not yet.

 

[MIDNJAC]

10-15,000 Americans left in Afghanistan? Get to the airport, but you’re on your own getting there and good luck? All part of the plan. Totally inevitable.

You'd think we could have at least solved this riddle ahead of time......

Out of curiosity, were they previously advised to leave and just didn't heed the warning, or were they told that everything was pretty good?