Little plane that could..coming soon.

[Scotty-O]

VLJ could be the wave of the future - faster than props, but cheaper to buy/maintain/fly than small commercial jets. I was going to use the Eclipse for a business aircraft proposal report I did earlier this year, but chose not to because of the lack of certification at the time.
Honda is also throwing their hat in the ring - they have a funky wing-mounted engine that saves interior space and supposedly improves aerodynamics. Should be an interesting area of aviation over the next few years.

Honda - http://www.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/07/26/honda.jets/index.html

 

[Huggy Bear]

DayJet Requirements:

3,000 hours flight time (excluding helicopter, simulator and flight engineer time)
1,000 hours as Pilot-in-Command (PIC)
1,000 hours multi-engine
500 hours turbo-jet PIC
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Certification


WTF? I can see them not counting sim time, but TOTALLY discount ANY helo time is BS. I can see 3K total, 1000 Multi, 500 Jet, but 1000 hours in Cessnas counts, while 1000 hours in a Multi-Engine Turbine Helo does not.

Guess I am staying out of the VLJ field as well.

3000 hours. Are they kidding? I hope they comp military time differently (like I understand most airlines do. I'd hope after 1400 hornet hours I could handle this taxi. Are these single pilot?

 

[thull]

You can’t get in man. Didn’t you hear, the requirements to be an air taxi pilot are that you be foreign, don’t speak English well, and wear a turban.

Okay, that was completely insensitive…

i was gonna fill out an application as HAVE PILOTS LICENSE. WILL FLY AIR TAXI. CALL TROY (ONLY AFTER 7 PM).

who could turn down those kinds of credentials??

 

[zuggerat]

this certification is complete bullsh!t... my dad is a project manager on the FAA Eclipse certification team and its only a preliminary certification because theyre running out of money and they need the "certification" in order to take orders. this allows them to extend their credit line and get a bigger loan for R&D. if they dont get the load they cant do the R&D which means they cant get a full certification. the FAA gave them the preliminary certification only because of intense political pressure to issue it.

it helps when ur from texas and know some "special people". when u look at a total % of the aircraft thats actually finished it comes to about 40%, and they want the rest of it done in the next 6 months. the engines from pratt and whitney havent even been looked at yet. they issued it at oshkosh merely for publicity and the aircraft that flew was their prototype. when me and my father were watching it fly we heard rathburn ranting over its new certification, my father turned to me and said the appropriate response question would be "exactly how much of the plane is certified... sir?"

 

[zuggerat]

Ya but the FAA certification process in itself is a huge beurocratic mess. It stifles development and many would be great designs have been stomped out before they were ever able to come to fruition. Look at the homebuilt market... light years ahead of their counterparts with a comperable if not better saftey record, for a fraction of the cost.

I firmly believe that the Eclipse is gonna do great things for aviation, but it's the FAA red tape and BS that, like always, is creating such a huge problem.

aint the FAA thats the problem its the politicians its appeasing that are/is/who/them/whatever...

IE FAA orders cockpit doors to be enhanced, everyone whines ---> 9/11 alterations...
IE FAA orders all aircraft center fuel tanks to be inerted and ventilated post Flt 800 ---> nothing... i guarantee if there's another fuel tank related incident then we'll all see some huge changes, but until the airlines have to do it, the politicians wont see it as a necessary item on the agenda.

FAA cuts back on recommendations --- everything crashes people get angry
FAA increases recommendations --- everything gets stiffled everyone whines.... they cant win...

 

[zuggerat]

Hence why they should listen more to the NTSB (not entirely though) than to politicians.

no we shouldnt because then my dad will be out of a job and i will be very poor...

 

[thull]

looks like this little jet's gonna make it through though, and I agree big changes probably going to come with it..

 

[Fly Navy]

looks like this little jet's gonna make it through though, and I agree big changes probably going to come with it..

Not for a while. Airline industry big. Airlines don't want to lose industry. Big planes cost lots of money. Airlines don't want to lose money.

 

[thull]

^^Maybe not, but "who wins" boils down to what the customer is being offered. if air taxis can offer something that big industry can't for a price that big industry can't, well that's the free market for ya. But I can see the "Not for a while" part.

 

[fighterpfeif]

I can't imagine a some guy with money and most of his time in Cessna singles going out and buying a VLJ. It will really screw things up for the small airports without control towers. Low time or inexperienced jet pilots flying into small airports with low time or inexperienced single recip. pilots.

Just imagine having student pilots in the pattern at some small airport in wherever and a Eclipse flown by an low time jet pilot, with his family causing some ruckess in the back.

I'm glad I will be in the Navy before the VLJ's take a hold because I can't imagine weekend warriors trading in there single recip. for a turbine. The air taxi guys I am not too worried about because they will probably need high times to get placed in a solo jet spot, but the dude who is looking for a new fast toy is going to cause hell. I think VLJs are going try and takeoff, but they won't. Look back in the 1960's and 1970's Cessna and others produced aircraft like the VLJs (Paris Jet, etc.) but they failed then and probably now.

 

[Fly Navy]

I can't imagine a some guy with money and most of his time in Cessna singles going out and buying a VLJ. It will really screw things up for the small airports without control towers. Low time or inexperienced jet pilots flying into small airports with low time or inexperienced single recip. pilots.

Just imagine having student pilots in the pattern at some small airport in wherever and a Eclipse flown by an low time jet pilot and his family causing some ruckess in the back = not a good thing.

I'm glad I will be in the Navy before the VLJ's take a hold because I can't imagine weekend warriors trading in there single recip. for a turbine. The air taxi guys I am not too worried about because they will probably need high times to get placed in a solo jet spot, but the dude who is looking for a new fast toy is going to cause hell.

Yeah... no.

First off, go take a visit to an airport like Destin. It's a non-tower field that mixes anything from a Super Cub to a Learjet (even had a 727 come in once). The airfield is super busy. They manage.

Second, low time joe-schmoe probably isn't buying an Eclipse jet, or any jet. Most people can't even afford a NEW piston aircraft, let alone a turbine aircraft.

I'm not sure of your aviation experience, but it doesn't sound like it's much.

Editted: Yeah, that Eclipse costs $1.5 million. Your doomsday scenario... not happening.

 

[zuggerat]

low time joe-schmoe probably isn't buying an Eclipse jet, or any jet. Most people can't even afford a NEW piston aircraft, let alone a turbine aircraft.

I'm not sure of your aviation experience, but it doesn't sound like it's much.

he's right... average props are goin for 250-300k+, even a cheap kit with a new engine from lycomings with their crankshaft problems is gonna set u back about 70-80k

 

[MasterBates]

Turbine=GOOD

Turbine helos are FAR easier to fly and manage than a piston helo.

I have flow R-22s, Bell-47s, HUP-21s, and a plethora of single and dual turbine. Turbines are easier to start, especialy when cold, engage, fly, and are FAR more reliable.

 

[Fly Navy]

Yep, turbine powered engines (turboprop, jet, etc) are much easier to operate and fly in my experience. Oh, and more reliable.

 

[Brett327]

Whomever thinks that there is going to be a "revolution in air travel" because someone comes out with a nifty new airplane is smoking crack.

Brett