Low Flying B-52

[AllAmerican75]

On 7 August 1955, Boeing Test Pilot Alvin M. "Tex" Johnston amazed the crowd attending the Seafair Gold Cup hydroplane race on Lake Washington in Seattle by barrel rolling the prototype Boeing 707, thus launching the era of the modern commercial jet. What Johnston did with the airplane was called a barrel-roll but some refer to it as an aileron roll in which a plane rotates on its long axis, rather than describing a "barrel" loop. However, unlike a conventional aileron roll, Johnston maintained positive gravity through the maneuver.

There is a difference in technique/control inputs as well as stress on the aircraft.

While I am aware of "Tex" Johnston's feat of daring-doo with the 707, and that he had major skill, but I am talking about physical limitations of the aircraft.

The B-47(such a sweet airplane) was rollable. Many experienced and not-so-experienced pilots rolled it. Unfortunately, the B-47 was phased out when the B-52 came online and many of the -47 drivers transitioned into -52 cockpits. Now, it is my understanding that many former -47 drivers inquired about being able to roll the BUFF, and were told by Boeing and the USAF that rolls were not allowed as it would overstress vital structural components of the aircraft and the plane would fall apart.

I apologize if I was not clear with my meaning earlier. I also apologize if I'm leaving anythign important out. The article I read was very technical and I didn't understand all of it.

 

[A4sForever]

On 7 August 1955, Boeing Test Pilot Alvin M. "Tex" Johnston amazed the crowd attending the Seafair Gold Cup hydroplane race on Lake Washington in Seattle by barrel rolling the prototype Boeing 707. ..

Funny thing is .... Tex described the maneuver as a .... "Chandelle" (?) ... his words .... and here I've always thought of it was a "modified" barrel roll.

But who am I to argue with Tex Johnson ... ???

 

[HeyJoe]

... can't find a "'52 tail" picture.

Of course, this isn't the same place and is the other end of the "cycle"

 

[A4sForever]

Of course, this isn't the same place and is the other end of the "cycle"

That's close, Joe ... now just Photoshop about 30-40 more, make 'em high polish silver aluminum, pour some ramp concrete, get rid of the Arizona mountains, add some "green" , and add a little Seattle rain/overcast.

Mahalo, however Bruddah.

 

[HeyJoe]

Funny thing is .... Tex described the maneuver as a .... "Chandelle" (?) ... his words .... and here I've always thought of it was a "modified" barrel roll.

But who am I to argue with Tex Johnson ... ???

Correctamundo...he did say that. Just found an interview with him that features a grainy video of the feat...worth a watch


If you want to really dig into the aero side of the feat, check out this link (A Little Bit of Boeing History: or How to Do a Barrel Roll in November 707):
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/feature/barrel/barrel.htm

 

[PropStop]

Hmm, a 1G maneuver....wonder if a P-3 could do that

What are the control inputs for a Chandelle? Anyone know?

 

[NavyLonghorn]

A Chandelle was tought to us as a 180 degree climbing turn with about 60 degrees of bank. Kinda like a closed pull-up. So im kinda confused.

 

[mules83]

 

[HeyJoe]

You boys should have seen "B-52 Boeing Field" (Seattle) in the '50's ... talk about B-52's!!! I remember coming over the hill above the field in my parents' car and being awed by the sight of dozens of "tails" --- B-47's and then B-52's --- lined up behind the screen fences, fresh off the production lines. It looked like a forest ... dozens of planes -- 2-3 rows deep --- of tall silver tails.

I'm thinking the B-52 was first called "Buff" during the Vietnam time-frame. Anyone ... ??? At least I never heard the term prior to that time frame; that's all I've heard since. And I've spent a lot of time in and around Boeing.

Something like this B-29 pix ... can't find a "'52 tail" picture.

Here's comparable shot of B-52s during their epic role in Linebacker (1972) raids

 

[MIDNJAC]

every "chandelle" I've ever done has looked roughly (*ahem) like that

 

[HeyJoe]

A Chandelle was tought to us as a 180 degree climbing turn with about 60 degrees of bank. Kinda like a closed pull-up. So im kinda confused.

Well, even though "Tex" used the "C" word, the video shows the 707 prototype still heading the same direction at the conclusion of the maneuver. A Chandelle, Split-S and Immelmann all result in 180 degree directional change at conclusion of the meneuver. That means he did some variation of a roll. If you go to this site, the technical analysis of his maneuver refers to it as a Barrel Roll: http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/feature/barrel/barrel.htm

The site also has a great writeup of the reaction of the Boeing president sitting on a boat watching the unbriefed maneuvers, a detailed analysis and you can try it for yourself in a PC Sim.

 

[A4sForever]

Well, even though "Tex" used the "C" word, the video shows.....he did some variation of a roll. ....The site also has ... a detailed analysis and hwo you can try it for yourself in a PC Sim.

I suppose Tex can call it whatever he wants to .... ???

I've done it in the 747 simulator ... i.e., so what? .... it worked but you better get the nose up initially ... ... ahhhh, simulators .... I still think they are a joke. And I've logged thousands of hours in them, training and instructing. BUT ... that's neither here nor there --- sims are all about making and saving $$$$.

I maintain the 747 could perform the "Tex Johnson Chandelle" if flown properly.

Even if flown IMPROPERLY ... the Whale can still do some amazing things. The airplane has survived a rolling "spin" from 40,000+ something feet when China Air (Taiwan) decided to try it in a 747-SP in 1985 --- @ 5+ G's ... rolling and descending 30,000 in about 2-3 minutes and thus coining the generic term for their crews .... "The Gooks of Hazard".

Even "they" laugh about it now ...

 

[AllAmerican75]

That just slays me, "gooks of hazard."

Now if only they'd paint their planes orange and put the Stars & Bars on the top. . .

 

[A4sForever]

Now if only they'd paint their planes orange ...

Already been done ... at my first airline.

The 100th 747 off the Boeing line and Braniff's first 747 --- shown in Honolulu and London ... "Big Orange", a.k.a. "Fat Albert" to the flight crews --- she just kept doing it and doing it day after day , week after week, month after month ..... flying DFW-HNL-DFW. The veritable energizer bunny of the 747 fleet.

One Captain died at the controls from a heart attack on the HNL-DFW leg. The F/O took over and landed @ LAX. The dead Captain's wife was the lead flight attendant on that day's flight. A bad day ...

"Fat Albert" was so successful and held up so well mechanically that Boeing wanted to buy her back ... for .... what ?????

Touch this: http://www.braniffinternational.com/Big-Orange.html

 

[Pugs]

Already been done ... at my first airline. [/B]

Very cool A-4's and a neat website. I remember an article Gordon Baxter wrote about "Big Orange" years ago in Flying magazine. (Likely before 75% of the folks on this board were born!)

My grandfather was one of the lucky ones to retire from Eastern before their demise. He had a heck of a career flying the, DC-3, Martin 404, Convair 440, Connies, DC-4, DC-7, DC-8, Electra's, 727's and A300's. Although he only flew the A300 for six months before he retired it was a higher pay than retiring as the third senior captain in the PreCambrian tri-jet.

Those were the days when air travel was special and not an airborne Greyhound.