Marine NFO's

[kimphil]

Originally posted by Frumby
Matt,
You certainly have a different perspective then what I've known. First, if you think your too tall for Prowlers at 6'2", guess again. I can introduce you to a number of pilots and NFO's who are over 6'3". The new skipper of Q-3 is over 6'3". Regarding F-18D's, initially WSO's find it difficult with the single seat mentality but so do pilots. The airplane is designed for two and can only be operated, to be effective, by two. Pilots that don't play nice usually don't last long and NFO's who think they can put the banana in front of the monkey to make him fly also have limited longevity. Professionalism generally prevails. Considering the assistant Commandant is an NFO, I think the bias has been squelched. I will admit that the Navy is a different story and there is a great desparity between pilots and NFO's.
After your first year, FAC, Flight Instructor or Amphibious Warfare School is the usually choices for pilots. FAC and AWS being the least favored but if you suck up a 1 year FAC billet the monitor generally will assign you to flight school if you desire. Instructor billets can be hard to come by. NFO's are a different story. FAC is a possibility but a limited number go this route. AWS is a good choice from a promotion stand point. NFO's especially, ECMO's have a wide variety from which to choose from. The Electronic Warfare mystique can find them in some very colorful and interesting billets. There are more EW billets then there are ECMO's.
Hope this adds a little more insight. Frumby

Attack Pilot
Major USMCR

That's good to know. Can you tell us what goes on at AWS. Thanks.


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Mongol General: ...Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.

 

[davidsin]

Hi everyone,

Good gouge here. I'm an OCAN NFO contract getting ready for occ183, and I am a bit confused about the billet deal. Do aviators and NFOs alike have to choose a secondary job besides flying? How long is the commitment for each billet, and what are the options and the duties of each option. Also, it seems that some think FAC is better than AWS and vise versa. Can anyone describe AWS and the other billets that are available for NFOs?

Also, will any USMC 2 seaters be launching off carriers or is it mostly land based operations? Some say that NFO's have an option to lead grunts in the field. Is this true? How do aviators treat NFOs in the Corps--like inferiors or equals? Is there a conflict between the two professions?

Lastly, I'm very short 5'6 does that mean that they'll throw me in the prowler even if I qualify for and desire to be in a hornet? What plane will replace the prowler? I hear the vertical take off version of JSF will...is this true?



Semper Fi

 

[kimphil]

Too many questions. I'm also trying to enter OCC 183 for an air contract so I know a few of these answers.

Originally posted by davidsin
Hi everyone,

Good gouge here. I'm an OCAN NFO contract getting ready for occ183, and I am a bit confused about the billet deal. Do aviators and NFOs alike have to choose a secondary job besides flying?

Yes.

How long is the commitment for each billet, and what are the options and the duties of each option.

Depends, see previous postings.

Also, it seems that some think FAC is better than AWS and vise versa. Can anyone describe AWS and the other billets that are available for NFOs?

Some help here?

Also, will any USMC 2 seaters be launching off carriers or is it mostly land based operations?

I believe all the current carrier deployed VMFA's are the F/A-18Cs. So I get the impression that F/A-18Ds are generally deployed from land. Anyone out there to confirm or deny this?

Some say that NFO's have an option to lead grunts in the field. Is this true? How do aviators treat NFOs in the Corps--like inferiors or equals? Is there a conflict between the two professions?

Hey, need help on this one.

Lastly, I'm very short 5'6 does that mean that they'll throw me in the prowler even if I qualify for and desire to be in a hornet?

Ditto.

What plane will replace the prowler?

The Navy will eventually eventually replace the "prowler" with the "growler" (Super Hornet). I assume the Marines will eventual do the same, but I don't know for sure.

I hear the vertical take off version of JSF will...is this true?

The JSF, like the Super Hornet, is a multirole fighter so I suppose that is a possibility. However, the Prowler seems like a solid plane and Marine aviation always seems short on funds so I wouldn't count on it happening any time soon.



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Mongol General: ...Conan, what is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
Mongol General: That is good.

 

[MVS26]

Kimphil,
How certain are they on that growler thing? Last I heard, it was an option they're keeping open, but nothing had been set in stone by the military, though Boeing is pushing HARD for it. They brought one around to airshows this past season, so I saw it there, but I heard UCAVs might be another possibility for the EW role. I hope they go with this Growler thing, personally. Let me know if heard anything else. Thanks.

 

[bluto]

Hornet squadrons are supposed to go to a composite squadron with mixes of C's and D's in the near future. These squadrons will supposedly be put together with the low trap C's and low airframe time D's going to the boat, with the high time airframes coming together to fill the UDP cycles. However, we will see upwards of 10 hornet squadrons on the boat vice the 4 we have now. This will obviously be a big switch, especially for the NFO and single seat squadrons. we'll see.

 

[Frumby]

Davidsin,
You asked a great question: FAC versus AWS. Depends on how you view life, as a careerist or opportunist. Actually, that's not a very fair statement because both merit unique opportunities.
FAC is a great billet if you want to be apart of the whole Marine Corps Air Ground genre but it depends on the unit that you are attached. If you are in deployable FAC billet, in particular a MEU(SOC), then you essentially are living AWS. Non-deployable or deployable to the Rock (Okinawa) then your experience is definitely lessened. Always remember that when an aviator is attached to any grunt unit, it looks extremely good on promotion boards.
Amphibious Warfare School is a formal school which is also a great feather in a aviators cap. Considering the emphasis placed on education by the Corps, this is definitly a great route and means that you do not have to finish the school via correspondence like your FAC counterparts. To generalize, you are in a year long school to study the Marine Expeditionary Unit that is Special Operations Capable.
Either way you go you can not hurt yourself as long as you perform professionally. I took the FAC route on a MEU(SOC) and finished AWS via correspondence. I enjoyed the hell out of it but was gone quite a bit. You may have been deployed in your fleet squadron and desire to at least come home every night to your family. AWS would be perfect for you. The one thing you never do is if you are selected for any formal school then accept regardless if you want to go or not. Turning down a formal school, as I understand it, can be the kiss of death. My view of the world looking through a soda straw, Frumby

Attack Pilot
Major USMCR

 

[Gooch]

Originally posted by Frumby
I will admit that the Navy is a different story and there is a great desparity between pilots and NFO's.

Major Frumby, I was wondering if you could expound on your earlier comment about disparity in the Navy as it compares to the Marine Corps. Also, if you could possibly contrast those situations with that of the Air Force between pilots and navigators I would really appreciate it, since I am considering both NFO and navigator. Thanks for your help, I always enjoy reading your insights.

Gooch

 

[Frumby]

First off,
I really can't compare the Air Farce relationship because my experiences only relate to one aircraft which is now retired. I'm referring to the EF-111. In that aircraft, much like the A-6E, the pilot and nav had a symbiotic relationship creating much more mutual respect and professionalism. I wish I could give you more insight but it would be more speculation then observation.
What ever the reason, there is a large disparity between pilot and NFO in the Navy. Of course this is a generalized statement and not everyone is like this but there is a predominate tone set in a Navy squadron. I'm not saying that the Corps is better or worse but every NFO has the title of "Marine" creating more mutual respect and professionalism. The pilots and NFOs already have a unique bond and similar experiences then there Navy counterparts. This has been my observation over the years. Frumby

Attack Pilot
Major USMCR

 

[E5B]

Frumby,

What unit(s) did you FAC with?


Bailey

 

[grouch]

As a future Navy FO I will demand respect from my pilot. If I don't get it I'll put a pencil in his ear on short final.

 

[Frumby]

E5- I was the Air Officer/FAC for BLT 2/8, 24th MEU. I am the current Air Officer for 1st Bn 23rd Marines in Houston. Matter of fact, I'm FACing on Feb 8 at Fort Hood with VMFA-112 and Army Air National Guard Helo's.

Grouch-Respect is a two way street.

Frumby

Attack Pilot
Major USMCR

 

[ghost_ttu]

What does that mean you will be doing at Ft. Hood? My parents live over in that area (ghost's childhood stomping grounds)

Eliminate distractions, focus on your goals and visualize what you hope to accomplish.

 

[Frumby]

If I have an extra helmet and Flak jacket, yes, you can come out and watch. Unfortunately, Hood is restrictive so my Hornets won't be able to drop. They are providing nothing but Simulated Close Air Support or SimCAS. Going through the motions without dropping any ordnance. The helo's are H-60's providing CAS with door guns. I'm providing them with 1500 rds of 7.62mm (not a whole lot. I also have a few hundred rounds of 81mm mortars for marking and supression in support of the CAS. Our goal is to work a combat operations center, live, clearing fires with battlespace geometry. Interested, let me know. Hard to justify bringing an Air Force wannabe into the field but I'll make an exception for you ghost. Frumby

Attack Pilot
Major USMCR

 

[grouch]

I have spent many nights out on west range road watching the Army boys play with their toys. To see a 155 fire off at three in the morning is pretty fun to watch. I have seen Apaches setting on ridge lines lighting up targets. I would love to be out there and watch a Hornet come and let hell loose. Good stuff. Major Frumby, respect is a two way street. I expect the ol pencil in my ear when I get too big for my britches.

 

[ghost_ttu]

That sounded like something is gonna get blown up!!!! Hell yes I'm interested, I could meet you over in Killeen somewhere. How are you coming in? If the helo's are army there is a good chance that my dad worked on a few of the birds, he does all the avionics over there.

I'd like to request a two seater hornet get brought, or tell one of them pilots to move over! (of course they might get a good laugh out of that order)

Are you driving or flying in? Let me know we can get a drink Friday night if you are around.

Eliminate distractions, focus on your goals and visualize what you hope to accomplish.