marines dress blues

[phrogdriver]

I'm cynical as anyone, but he's more qualified to speak traditions than anyone here.

If the Marine Corps thinks it needs tougher NCOs, it needs to make our training harder. It's not up to a bunch of 20-somethings to figure out 1) what traditions should be, and 2) what the criteria for being an NCO is. The Marine Corps already has Boot Camp, with the Crucible; the Corporals' Course, Sergeants' Course, SNCO Academy, etc, in order to provide "rites of passage." If those aren't sufficient training, call TECOM.

 

[KBayDog]

One parting shot regarding this "tradition": There's a little phrase on the Corporal promotion warrant (DD216MC) that says, "...this appointee is to observe and follow such orders and directions as may be given from time to time by Superiors acting according to the rules and articles governing the discipline of the Armed Forces of America."

Here's such an order MCO 1700.28A and direction ALMAR 005/12.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Horse shit.

While I'm not the saltiest mofo on the planet, I've been around this Rod and Gun Club for more than a handful of years. When I joined the NCO ranks (back in the Dark Ages (the 90s)), getting your "blood stripes" (intentionally not capitalized) was hazing. Yes, hazing. The type of hazing that gets COs fired. The type of hazing that does nothing to foster "Good Order and Discipline." The type of hazing that has absolutely no place in our military.

No, I did not get my "blood stripes." Why? It was not tolerated, even back then.

Sorry, sodajones, but the Corps hasn't suddenly "gone soft" since you joined.

I'm with KBayDog on this one. I pinned on Cpl in '93, and there was no "gauntlet" because it was hazing. Those who did get their "blood stripes" were done behind closed doors. Why? Because it was prohibited. I did not get my blood stripes either, but I sorta did. My NCOIC took me around to every shop, and I got at most a light tap with a knee to the thigh. Everyone knew that this was all they could do - because my NCOIC was SSgt who was busted to Cpl, following a GCM for abuse of a recruit. After he spent time in the brig on Parris Island, he was meritoriously promoted to Sgt by the Commandant, and he would not tolerate any hazing. I had friends that did get the full blood stripe "initiation" and some of them couldn't walk afterwards. That's hazing. Period.

 

[FlyinRock]

When I got out of boot camp, I had been promoted to PFC. I spent my boot leave with my family at Camp Pendleton and my ol man took me to the SNCO club for beers. I have no idea how many SNCO's tacked on my stripes with a beer but my arms were sore for days. When I got my jump wings, they got tacked on with solid thumps and the scars are there today. So what is the big fuckin deal? Traditions are there and with the kinder gentler thinking of the people today, those traditions are going by the way side in favor of silk pillows, a gentle hug, and a chorus of KoomBayYah. We have a younger and just as fierce Corps of troops as ever but the traditions are getting shuttled to the dustbin. WTF is going on? Doesn't make sense to me. I see some replies here that think profanity is out of line and yet we are expected to go out and put our lives on the line with a gentle "ohhh look out here I come..." instead of a terrifying war cry that puts the fear of god into the enemy.
The whoosies here know who they are and the warriors do too.
Semper fi
Rocky

 

[HueyCobra8151]

So sore arms and blood wing scars make warriors? No offense, Sir, but I think your idea of today's "pussified" Marine Corps that doesn't bloodstripe Corporals anymore doesn't hold water. I would say that the percentage of guys who have CAR's and no-shit Air Medals is pretty high right now.

When I picked up Corporal in 2004 I wasn't bloodstriped, and I've never had anyone seriously tack in a collar insignia (more than a ceremonial tap).

 

[phrogdriver]

If the Marine Corps is "just as fierce" than what are we losing by dispensing with the extra hazing? I just don't see how punching someone or whatever trains him to be a better Marine. If our Marines aren't tough enough, then refer recommendations to our various schools, have COs do more PT, more marching, whatever. Having junior Marines beat each other is not going to do the job.

Who's saying profanity is out of line? Lord knows there's no shortage of that in the modern Marine Corps, so if anyone's trying to stamp it out, it isn't working. Now, racial/gender/religious slurs aren't tolerated anymore, but if you think we need more of those, I'd say you're off base. Those shouldn't have been out there to begin with.

That said, I'm wondering what people think about "incentive PT." I haven't seen it used for a long time, and the CMC/SgtMaj's new pet rock is eliminating it. I see how it can be taken to excess, and maybe the excesses have prompted this move. Doing the "electric chair" or making someone run 'till he drops is wrong, but doing some pushups for being late instead of getting a 6105? Sounds like a win/win.

 

[hlg6016]

Got mine "tacked on" no big deal it was part of the package, Crybabies and weak sisters had a harder time for some strange reason. As long as we as NCO's kept things from getting out of hand and policed ourselves it was no big deal.

 

[Rocketman]

If you're enlisted and promoted to NCO you perform a ritual called "earning your blood stripe." Basically, you walk a gauntlet of NCOs. You shake an NCO's hand and then he gives you a good kick or knee to the side of the leg where your blood stripe will be.

I don't pretend that it made me any tougher or a better Marine but I damn sure got my "blood stripes pinned on" exactly like sodajones described. I was never kicked but got several knees to the thigh that hurt like hell. Big time charlie horse in both legs to the point that it was difficult to walk afterward.

I'm glad my enlisted kid didn't go through it when he made Cpl but to be honest I never thought much about it at the time. I certainly never thought about it as hazing although looking back I guess it was. I have no idea how widespread that practice was but if you were a grunt in 2/6 or 1/4 in the mid to late 70's you got your blood stripes pinned on.

 

[FlyinRock]

So sore arms and blood wing scars make warriors? No offense, Sir, but I think your idea of today's "pussified" Marine Corps that doesn't bloodstripe Corporals anymore doesn't hold water. I would say that the percentage of guys who have CAR's and no-shit Air Medals is pretty high right now.
When I picked up Corporal in 2004 I wasn't bloodstriped, and I've never had anyone seriously tack in a collar insignia (more than a ceremonial tap).

I read your reply and waited a few days to answer. Thank you for "No offense sir" and none was taken. I was a DI back in the 50's when the USMC was taking a serious hit for the Parris Island incident when flawed judgement was responsible for the deaths of some recruits. I have watched the training process change over the years and was part of the early DI's who were put under enormous presssure for what was the start of the touchy feely military. I never said the pussified Marine Corps...your term, not mine. In derision, I may say pussified, but if you look back at my post I also said they are just as fierce as ever. They are much more educated than the days of old. Perhaps that was why traditions were needed to make up for it? I'm not stupid nor uneducated but I certainly recognize the need for tradition and that is a huge part of the USMC to the chagrin of the other services. Today I am proud of my USMC background and upbringing. I'm also proud of the traditions that have endured. At the same time I wonder at how much more serious or possibly debilitating the traditions may have been 100 years ago when someone was promoted? My father was a MSgt USMC with a date of rank 1943. I was brought up under some serious restraints and grew up with Marines around me who were proud of their accomplishents in the Pacific. When I went on active duty, the Korean war was still going on and the Marines there performed with outstanding ratings. They were the people who demanded performance from me and cut me no slack. Perhaps it was the start of the kindler gentler USMC and traditions fading into the fog of history.
I'm a dinosaur and refuse to give up those old traditions. Young new Marines often ask me what has happened to 0ur traditions and I tell them it is up to them to remember and carry them on. We are warriors and not pussies. Read some history and see what the spartans were all about. The USMC is the modern day version of the Spartans.
Respectfully
Semper Fi
Rocky

 

[wlawr005]

The USMC is the modern day version of the Spartans.

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[FlyinRock]

Maybe. Maybe not.

Photo notwithstanding...... my son and I kiss on the mouth and I can see a photo of us just like this. And your point is ...?
Semper Fi
Rocky

 

[hlg6016]

Those guys need to get a room.

 

[wlawr005]

...when flawed judgement was responsible for the deaths of some recruits. I have watched the training process change over the years and was part of the early DI's who were put under enormous presssure for what was the start of the touchy feely military.

I never said the pussified Marine Corps...your term, not mine. In derision, I may say pussified, but if you look back at my post I also said they are just as fierce as ever.

They were the people who demanded performance from me and cut me no slack. Perhaps it was the start of the kindler gentler USMC and traditions fading into the fog of history.

No point. I'm just confused by some of what you posted above. Is the Corps as fierce-as-ever, or a victim of touchy-feelyness? If it's as fierce-as-ever, then what have we lost by conceding that "bloodstriping" is a little silly and somewhat useless?

 

[FlyinRock]

Those guys need to get a room.

And, if they are brothers, and they are glad to see each other .....?
Why do so many immediately think negative over emotional feelings expressed?
If it was my son coming back from a combat zone I would not hesitate to give him the same kind of hug and kiss.
Semper Fi
Rocky

 

[wlawr005]

Sir, I don't know if you are familiar with the story or not. Those guys are NOT brothers.