MCMAP Mandatory Training Mega Thread

[skidkid]

To second waht ZAb said it sint much different on the green side. Teh operational requirements are many and time is pecious. Yes we do Semper Fu but it is in dribs and drabs. We will do two "super" weeks a year or so for mass rifel range, gas chamber and Semper Fu but that is about it. There are remedial programs for those who need it and every now and then a training day will start with a squadron run but the bottom line is the measure of success is steel on target.
In the Grunts there is obviously more focus and time for PT and hand to hand traiining.
There are signifigatn beenfits to putting on the gloves and beating someone down or getting beat down. It helps instill tht warrior spirit and kilelr instinct that is applicable in the air as much as the ground but its all about timing

 

[flynsail]

Here is the link to the OPNAVINST that deals with topic of PT and nutrition:

http://neds.daps.dla.mil/Directives/6110/one.pdf

The good stuff begins on the bottom of page 3, #11. As others have said though, operational requirements play a big role in the physical training schedule. Out of curiosity, as a DivO, are we allowed to initiate a weekly PT schedule for our division? Or is that more of a DH or CO decision?

As for the martial arts question, it does sound like it would be fun. However, when commands have a hard time sticking with a PT regimen, it would be hard to incorporate that even though it would kick "a$$".

Gagirl,

Just being a bit picky today. Some might disagree, but a Sailor is an O and an E. Surely you have seen more than a handful of Sailors that fit in their uniform. After all, we get them sized and tailored to fit our well-proportioned figures :icon_tong

 

[Red2]

A big problem I have with mando PT is that different people have different body types/metabolisms. A PT regiment that works for one guy might not work for another. That's why personal trainers exist, to tailor a plan for their clients' individual needs.

My suggestion for culling the fat bodies from the herd would be to raise the body fat standards. I think 22% for males and 33% for females is too generous. The standard should be reevaluated, to what, I don't know. I'll leave that to the docs/fitness experts. Also, I think the rope and choke (which takes height/weight into account) should be the only standard used to determine if someone is overweight or not, not the fall back standard if they fail the height/weight-only standard. I think there are alot of sailors out there who are within the height/weight standard but have 23%+ body fat, that would explain the fat bodies seen walking around.

 

[nittany03]

That rope-and-choke gave one of my ROTC buddies absolute fits. Not because he was obese (he wasn't), but because he was barrel-chested and basically square-shaped. So if he didn't watch his weight he was basically guaranteed to fail the rope-and-choke. And isn't there some whizbang gadget which determines body fat content by measuring the electric resistance of your body?

 

[Pags]

if ya fail the rope and choke, i think you go see the doc and have your physical shape assessed. this is to account for dudes who are just jacked.

 

[nittany03]

Hmm. If I remember my ROTC days right, if you failed the rope & choke you were automatically on the remedial program. Guess it's a ROTC thing. But I do agree with Red2's general idea. You see some people out there and wonder how the heck they fall through the cracks.

 

[Crowbar]

I don't have the ultimate faith in body fat estimation using the tape (I just despise using the term "rope and choke", probably for the same reason I despise referring to Marines as "bodies"). I typically run ~260 PFT, and am about 5-15 lbs overweight. The calipers that most trainers use put me right at 15% BF. However, the tape has me ~20%. I really don't think I'm disproportionate, I just think that using the term "estimation" in your official measurement method really leaves a lot of leeway.

 

[zab1001]

Out of curiosity, as a DivO, are we allowed to initiate a weekly PT schedule for our division? Or is that more of a DH or CO decision?

COULD you? I dunno, I guess, but good luck. You're gonna have your hands so full as it is between qualifying, flying, studying, and then your ground job...why add to the pain?

This isn't a question of going "above and beyond"...it just isn't feasible. If you want to be "that guy" who is making an extra effort, go to Mando PT with your fat kids, like I said, set the example. Trying to get an entire division schedules to play graba$s soccer or some half-a$s work out is a waste of time. Ensure your fat kids are going to Mando PT. The End.

 

[flynsail]

Thanks for the response zab! That would be overkill to attempt a divisional PT schedule on top of all the requirements already expected of us.

 

[PropStop]

I told the guys in my shop that I'd be starting mando PT three days a week. they reminded me that they know where I live...

 

[JEEPER1219]

Hmm. If I remember my ROTC days right, if you failed the rope & choke you were automatically on the remedial program. Guess it's a ROTC thing. But I do agree with Red2's general idea. You see some people out there and wonder how the heck they fall through the cracks.

No this is a Navy wide policy. A failure on any portion of the PFA results in a failure.

 

[Bajastylee]

Well I am in the Army and we happen to have mandatory PT and it is just fine for us. From what I have read you guys only have it 3 times a week, well we have it 5 times a week. Granted I am in the Infantry, but everybody on post is doing PT everyday. Of course if something comes up then PT will be put off. But it is up to your leaders to make sure that there is enough time for you to do PT, we just put it in our work schedule 0600-1800. So I believe that it would be beneficial for the Navy. And just so you guys no I am not ripping on the Navy, just fro what I have come across from the other services is that the TACPs, and pilot from the AF and the Marines are the only ones that can ever keep up. I have worked with the Navy by the way a couple times on joint training. So take it for what it is worth.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

We have "PT" 5 days a week. M-W-F is PT, Tu-Th is supposed to be Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP).

The MCMAP days, as I recall from the fleet, were tougher than the regular PT days. Usually had to run the O-Course a few times and do a bunch of Boots and Utes sprints, fireman carries, bearcrawls, buddy drags, etc..., before you even started working on punching/kicking/etc...

Then at the end, after everyone is wore the hell out we would box or grapple.

 

[KBayDog]

We have "PT" 5 days a week. M-W-F is PT, Tu-Th is supposed to be Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP).

The MCMAP days, as I recall from the fleet, were tougher than the regular PT days. Usually had to run the O-Course a few times and do a bunch of Boots and Utes sprints, fireman carries, bearcrawls, buddy drags, etc..., before you even started working on punching/kicking/etc...

Then at the end, after everyone is wore the hell out we would box or grapple.

And then someone would break a finger or something, and be grounded for a few months.

I like MCMAP as much as the next guy (though I am still a fan of LINE training's "Grab, Twist, Pull" ), but I can see how those on the aviation side of the house are a little hesitant to go 100% into the program.

Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I am opposed to any mandatory organized PT for officers. Being in top physical condition for us is non-negotiable - it comes with the "special trust and confidence" placed upon us. If an officer is out of shape/fat, not only is he a bad example, he has shown that he cannot take care of himself. If he cannot take care of himself, how can we trust him to take care of his subordinates? If the problem cannot be nipped in the bud by good leadership, fat officers simply need to go bye-bye. We don't need 'em. Each of the services have motivated individuals breaking down the doors to earn a commission; those who are unwilling/unable to conform to the prescribed standards can easily be replaced by those who can.

Fatness cannot be tolerated on the enlisted side of the house, either. PT should be regularly scheduled (by us), and led/supervised by NCOs/POs with not only the motivation, but at least a halfway decent physiology understanding. (In other words, not some other fat, lazy NCO/PO who just wants to play basketball for an hour once a week.) That is why I am an advocate of incorporating some sort of basic sports science program into the PME schools. That way, the guys who actually execuate the PT/nutrition programs know what they are doing. That said, I am all for variety. The days of the three-times a week green-on-green formation run have passed. We are smart enough to realize that many of our training injuries are actually sports medicine issues (not just "Pop three Motrin and stay on light duty for a week"); we then need to be training like the, well, professional athletes we are.

Perhaps this could open the door to multi-million dollar endorsements?

Anyway, this fatness issue is a leadership issue. Ideally, it should never come to this if we are doing our jobs. The physical condition of our Marines/Sailors is our responsibility. Just like our other military responsibilities, we should be delegating that authority to the operators - the small unit leaders - to get it done. If it is not getting done, we need to be holding those NCOs/POs accountable. After all, ultimately, physical conditioning is as much a matter of life or death as being able to shoot, fly, etc.

Ugh. Time to practice what I preach. Thank goodness cable TV sucks.

I want my...I want my...I want my MTV...

Oh boy, I'm aging myself there...

 

[Fly Navy]

Well I am in the Army and we happen to have mandatory PT and it is just fine for us. From what I have read you guys only have it 3 times a week, well we have it 5 times a week. Granted I am in the Infantry, but everybody on post is doing PT everyday. Of course if something comes up then PT will be put off. But it is up to your leaders to make sure that there is enough time for you to do PT, we just put it in our work schedule 0600-1800. So I believe that it would be beneficial for the Navy. And just so you guys no I am not ripping on the Navy, just fro what I have come across from the other services is that the TACPs, and pilot from the AF and the Marines are the only ones that can ever keep up. I have worked with the Navy by the way a couple times on joint training. So take it for what it is worth.

THat kind of stuff just doesn't work in a flying environment. Infantry and Aviation are as far apart as possible.