MCMAP Mandatory Training Mega Thread

[BarrettRC8]

yeah....
I kind of thought you looked like a bag of ass when I met you....

How did I not see this before?! I suppose its a bit late to come up with a witty response at this point.

Anyway, I checked into MATSG-21 on Friday and everyone who doesn't have a grey was told they'd have to have it by the end of the fiscal year. If I recall correctly they're offering MCMAP sessions for 3 hours M-F. Oo-rah.

 

[jamnww]

For all of you that are having trouble comprehending the "pilots can't afford to get hurt" argument......all I can say is wait until you are a schedule writer in a fleet squadron someday and you'll see what we mean. One missing "key person" can swing a moderately large wrecking ball through your schedule/weekly/monthly training plan. God help you if you lose somebody right before deployment. You'll see.

My squadron did the full 40 hrs of MCMAP jammed into one week approx 2.5 weeks before chopping out for a deployment. All told we had somewhere on the order of 15 injuries ranging from concussions to broken legs and broken collar bones.

There were a lot of flash reports that came out of that week.

 

[ArkhamAsylum]

1. If you're a lieuie waiting for API for over a month, you've already done the NOMI thing, you don't have a stash job that takes up 40 hours a week, and you don't get your gray belt, you might be just plain lazy.
2. If you go med-down from Semper Fu, you might be using terrible technique, or are uber-out of shape, in which case you should probably not take the PFT/CFT either.
3. If your squadron will come to a grinding halt in your absence, you need to sell back some leave and get your arse promoted.
4. It's not like this is the dumbest thing you've ever had to do to fulfill a training requirement.
5. Better do it now, because the next Commandant will bump the requirement up a belt, and then you'll be really screwed.
6. Think of all those times in the bar you really wish you remembered how to do an eye gouge. Train for the future.
7. What would Jesus do?

 

[mmx1]

Like in the parasail thread, you have to think twice about training that will break someone if improperly conducted. Students will make mistakes when they learn, and relying on a student to use proper technique when they are learning is a poor safeguard - it definitely shouldn't be the only one. Especially if you fail to use proper technique and break your dummy through no fault of his own.

 

[Ric Hard]

There is no MARADMIN yet! I currently work at ATB TECOM and the MARADMIN requiring that all aviators be grey and all grunts be green is coming...... like it or not. While aviators are not grunts we are still Marines. Just like all Marines must now complete the new CFT we should participate in programs like MCMAP as well. I say should because that is my opinion. It is a great opportunity to work with young Marines and share important tie-ins with them as well. I have a paper written by Major "Boo Boo" Yi, which explains the importance of MCMAP and its value to all including aviators. Anyone interested let me know and I will post it. I definately agree that MCMAP is absolutely a perishable skill if not sustained, however, I believe that it is a great way to remember that we are not just aviators but also Marines. Just my opinion.

 

[phrogpilot73]

There is no MARADMIN yet! I currently work at ATB TECOM and the MARADMIN requiring that all aviators be grey and all grunts be green is coming...... like it or not. While aviators are not grunts we are still Marines. Just like all Marines must now complete the new CFT we should participate in programs like MCMAP as well. I say should because that is my opinion. It is a great opportunity to work with young Marines and share important tie-ins with them as well. I have a paper written by Major "Boo Boo" Yi, which explains the importance of MCMAP and its value to all including aviators. Anyone interested let me know and I will post it. I definately agree that MCMAP is absolutely a perishable skill if not sustained, however, I believe that it is a great way to remember that we are not just aviators but also Marines. Just my opinion.

Wow. Let me guess, you're a Lt stashed at ATB post TBS while waiting for flight school.

Wait until you get to the fleet...

 

[ArkhamAsylum]

Maybe if the MAW/MARDIV/MEF staff spent more time doing MCMAP, they'd have less time to come up with bullshit programs for us lowly peons to do.

 

[phrogdriver]

When you've done your 20th MarineNet predeployment class on "Trafficking in Persons" and "Counterintelligence," ("take a different route to work every day") or have to qualify on a freakin' carbine, you'll see that the training bag has gotten stretched with a couple pounds too much crap. I don't have any problem with MCMAP pe se. It's actually better than a lot of useless crap. However, to do it right requires a LOT of sustainment training. That means that if HQMC actually thinks it's so important, it should probably a couple other turds to pull out of the bag to make room.

As Yogi Berra once said "When you find yourself at a fork in the road, take both." Just like anywhere in goverment, sometimes higher echelons think they can choose "all of the above." They don't see all the consequences of that, just that another good idea is now implemented, we can say that our Marines are Kung-fu fighters, and commands now have another requirement to figure out what to do with.

 

[Ric Hard]

You must be psychic Phrog? And like I said.... Just my opinion.

 

[phrogpilot73]

You must be psychic Phrog? And like I said.... Just my opinion.

And like I said, just wait until you're in the fleet and you see just how much shit you try to stuff in a sock. Your tune may change...

 

[Clux4]

The PX sells black MCMAP belts right........?

 

[Nafod]

i guess thats *one* way to fulfill the requirement....

 

[skidzAF]

MCMAP is over rated. Most of the instructors have no martial arts background. The syllabus is thought completely wrong in most cases. The moves taught can get you seriously hurt in a real situation. I believe the program needs reform.

 

[HeyJoe]

One Mind, Any Weapon!

And it had to happen, someone at EWS decided to write on the topic and the USAF decided to host it on the Air War College website: MCMAP and the Marine Warrior Ethos

Meanwhile, MCMAP makes the news!

Marine Corps Martial Arts Program history is made on Camp Fallujah
Story by Cpl. Sean P. McGinty
CAMP FALLUJAH, Iraq – Since it’s inception in 2001, the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program has churned out warriors and the Marines who train them.

But on Camp Fallujah, a cadre of instructors from Multi National Force – West made MCMAP history by forging 95 new instructors of various belt levels, according to Sgt. Brandon W. Meng, a 27-year-old MCMAP instructor-trainer at the Marine Corps’ Martial Arts Center of Excellence in Quantico, Va.

The class of 95 service members, from various military branches and occupational specialties, graduated from the MCMAP Martial Arts Instructor Course Oct. 3 in the Chapel of Hope here.

After five arduous weeks of training, these new instructors can now impart the knowledge they’ve learned to others, allowing their students to give back to their peers, by teaching them the physical, mental and moral disciplines of MCMAP.

“These Marines did outstanding,” said Staff Sgt. Jeff J. Vandentop, the 31-year-old I Marine Expeditionary Force Headquarters Group (Forward) company gunnery sergeant and chief instructor-trainer for the course.

The course was five-weeks of striking, grappling and standing workouts, standing and ground free-sparring, unit-cohesion exercises and instructor training. Troops under black-belt who participated also obtained a higher belt level.

“The curriculum was the same as the rear, but more spread out,” said Vandentop, an Upland, Calif. native. This was due to busy deployment work schedules the service members have to endure. The course takes three-weeks in America.

The record-making class size turned out to be a fun challenge for Vandentop and his four assistant instructors. Marines even came from bases all over the MNF-W area of operations to attend the course.

“I personally found it refreshing to have a class this size,” Vandentop said. “Over 80 students graduating this course, that’s unheard of; and I used to run the satellite school at (Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego), and I never had more than around 20 to 24 students at a time”

The curriculum also held many surprises for the students. They had guest instructor Col. George H. Bristol, the I MHG commanding officer, and the man Gen. James L. Jones, the 32nd commandant, asked to create a fighting system for the Marine Corps. Sgt. Maj. Larock W. Benford, Multi National Force – West’s Ground Combat Element sergeant major, black-belt instructor and All-Marine Wrestler, also instructed the class. They also performed intense physical training and were taught fighting techniques that are not included in the MCMAP syllabus.

“Thinking outside the box helps you become a more well-rounded warrior,” Benford, from Providence, R.I., told the soon-to-be graduates, as he taught them wrestling techniques.

“The thing I enjoyed the most was the knowledge that the guest trainers gave us,” said Sgt. Sarina A. Young, a 25-year-old field mess clerk from I MHG, and now a MCMAP black belt instructor.

Young said that she became a MCMAP instructor so that she could contribute more to the Marine Corps.

“I want to go out there and train Marines,” the Hanford, Calif. native said. “I believe this is a great program, and I feel a sense of ‘warrior discipline’ from it.”

To upgrade belt levels, Marines must learn the ethos and history of warrior cultures from the past. From the Spartans to the Marine Raiders of World War II, the students not only learn about the societies that produced these warriors, but their battle tactics and cultures as well.

When Bristol spoke to the graduates, he let them know that they will be remembered among this list of history’s most valiant warriors.

“But we will stand out above them,” his booming voice echoed throughout the chapel, without the aid of a microphone. “We are free men and women who have chosen to fight .”

 

[deloachth]

MCMAP is not over rated.

"Most of the instructors have no martial arts background" What did you expect, ninja school? If you are getting the word Martial in MCMAP confused with the traditional Martial Arts, you are mistaken. If you are thinking about "individuals dressed in white kimonos throwing and kicking each other around the dojo," you, along with many others, are wrong.

"Of, relating to , or suggestive of war. Relating to or connected with the armed forces or the profession of arms. Characteristic or befitting a warrior" is the definition of the word martial that is more in line with what we are talking about when we define our Martial arts program.

You say "The moves taught can get you seriously hurt in a real situation."

During my experience teaching MCMAP, I see countless Marines that have never raised a hand in violence much less been in a fight. The MCMAP program teaches Marines techniques of close combat that will benefit the unit in case of hand to hand combat. But, hand to hand combat is only a small part of a martial culture. If you think that, with M16 in hand, I am going to lay my weapon down to engage my enemy with my fist..... i don't think so.

What is the real situation that you were talking about? Maybe you were thinking about being in a bar fight somewhere?

You say "The syllabus is thought completely wrong in most cases."

This doesn't even make sense. So, I assume you mean taught instead of thought. Maybe some specific instances of what you are taking about.

You say, "I believe the program needs reform."

I agree, nothing's perfect. Everything could use improvement. Maybe you could give some examples of how to make it better. It doesn't take much intelligence to sit back, point at something, and say it's not perfect. Here's one thing that I think should be improved. Why do we concentrate so much on MCMAP in MOS's not even close to the fight, when we have Sergeants out there that can't even load a frequency into a radio or call in a 9 line to MEDEVAC a wounded Marine. Maybe we should worry about training across the board, stuff like CQB, EMP courses and the like. Training that we are more likely to use anyway.

Quotes that weren't yours were taken from Martial Arts Instructor's lesson plan MAI-09 and the American Heritage College Dictionary.