^Fucking THIS.
The 2s6: "We call this piece the 'Fecalator'. One look at it, and the target shits him- or herself."
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MH-60S with a M197 20mm cannon!
- Thread starter Flying Toaster
- Start date
^Fucking THIS.
The 2s6: "We call this piece the 'Fecalator'. One look at it, and the target shits him- or herself."
Gauntlet keeps me awake at night....^Fucking THIS.
The 2s6: "We call this piece the 'Fecalator'. One look at it, and the target shits him- or herself."
No, it was more like the deppidy was doing an investigation of the squadron at the time and happened to have a Q&A with the wardroom, too.
That point was illustrating that he was the LOWEST point in the CoC outside our squadron discussing this topic, up to and including the air boss.
No, it was more like the deppidy was doing an investigation of the squadron at the time and happened to have a Q&A with the wardroom, too.
That point was illustrating that he was the LOWEST point in the CoC outside our squadron discussing this topic, up to and including the air boss.
Thanks. I would HAVE missed that.
SEE: Torpedoes, Naval Aviation, Helicopters, Historical Employment, Training and Readiness versus Proficiency.
The more things change, the more they stay the same!
bubba716
New Member
Haven't been on here in a while, but I thought I'd chime in. The M197 is a great gun, my squadron has been shooting the new linkless system for a while now and I can count the number of times it's jammed on me since on one hand, and i've put several thousand rounds through the gun with the new cans. I had the opportunity to fly with some 60 bubba's a couple of days ago, and they are good to go. Their mindset when it comes to shooting is completely different than ours, the profiles that they flew seemed to assume that no one was ever going to shoot back. Shooting fixed isn't exactly easy, and is not very effective unless you get steep, something that the 60 boys just aren't used too. Just my two cents. Should be interesting to see how this thing turns out.
Just to clarify, the guy was a boot Lt, and I wasn't trying to diminish or talk shit about any communities, just saying that I don't think they prioritize threats and weapons the same way. They prioritize other stuff.
How many torps have you dropped in your career? I've lost count. I can, however, tell you exactly how many Hellfires I've shot and it's a less than impressive number. I'm sure theater has a lot to do with it, but being proficient with a torp hasn't been a huge concern of mine in the past because it's just something I've had a lot of practice with (assuming I can find the damn keys on the keyset).
I would not call a crew that drops one torp per IDTC proficient and that one torp/IDTC is about fleet average.
I think you'll agree that Hellfire requires more dexterity for the pilot to get it off the rail successfully, you don't have to just enter a few settings and then wait for the right moment to push the button and wait for the 'earth shattering kaboom'.
And from my knowledge the number of Hellfires Navy helos have launched in anger is higher than the number of torpedoes we have fired in anger.
My point is Big Navy has never provided the helicopter communities enough ammo to be proficient. I bet if you told the VFA community that they only got to drop one weapon per IDTC there would be rioting in the streets, but for helo guys, one weapon is more than enough...
I think you'll agree that Hellfire requires more dexterity for the pilot to get it off the rail successfully, you don't have to just enter a few settings and then wait for the right moment to push the button and wait for the 'earth shattering kaboom'.
And from my knowledge the number of Hellfires Navy helos have launched in anger is higher than the number of torpedoes we have fired in anger.
My point is Big Navy has never provided the helicopter communities enough ammo to be proficient. I bet if you told the VFA community that they only got to drop one weapon per IDTC there would be rioting in the streets, but for helo guys, one weapon is more than enough...
Lumpy - for arguments sake - the folks at the range on the west coast did ensure that you had a valid drop and sent a message to the wing - directly tying a squadron's readiness was tied to whether their individual crews could achieve a valid drop. This is a built in competency process that has been lost on many of the missions today. I never had anyone say that my Hellfire shot wasn't valid - and had that tied directly to squadron readiness.
Your experience has been different than mine. But again, I think that's due to duty station and squadron focus. I'm intentionally NOT saying community focus because duty stations (ie, theater) seem to be a driving contributor to the focus.
Exactly my point. So, why have I not fired more missiles? Although, to be fair, I actually think it's pretty damn easy to shoot a HF. Other than setting the code and profile, it's pretty straight forward. What's far more challenging (for me, anyway), is getting it on target on time and/or on target with someone else, on time.
I'm not sure what your point here is. I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, as I don't know. Has an AC helo squadron ever fired a HF in anger? LAMPS sure as hell hasn't. I don't remember hearing anything about HS, but again, I welcome the knowledge.
That said, then why do we practice any of this? Since we never use it, why bother expending flight hours on practicing it? Obviously I understand why, but you get my point (see my last comment below).
And on this, I completely agree. Ironically, the Reserves don't have anywhere near this problem, but for the AC guys, it's ridiculous to make it a priority with such little support.
The range at Clemente (where I've dropped at least 20 torps) is so scripted for Torp-Ex quals that it is the rare exception for a crew not to get a qual. (PCO Ops is a completely different story!!)
My argument is simply that a crew shooting one a year does not really train us to do our job effect. My Department Heads who all were brought up on Russian subs would drop multiple weapons a year, to include runners against real subs.
Today, we go up against a 6 knot sled to get a weapon off the rail....
Break Break
Mea Culpa on this point. I could have sworn that an H-60 shot a Hellfire at a pirate ship, but I mis-remembered, it engaged with the door gun.
So, I guess Navy helos have never fired a torp or a Hellfire in anger...
You put very succinctly the point I was trying to make. Knowing the buttonology is easy, knowing how to put that HF on a target with only a 5 sec window to impact because jets are dropping before and after is the hard part.
However, I've seen some middle to senior level guys know how to use the FLIR like a champ but getting a real or sim HF off the rail becomes a cluster fuck. Add in all the external stuff and heads fall off the back of the aircraft because they can't keep up.
Basically, I think that we as a community either need to be able to use our weapons on demand without two weeks prior planning to do so, or we need to stop advertising that we can do it.