Mumbai Attacks

[Brunes]

Excuse me...

Sounds like you have a biased view of everyone here.

Where I work, the student pilots have a prayer room.

Ask a Muslim what they think of their religion and they will tell you they are right about Allah and the afterlife and the way to live the Pillars of Muslim...
Ask a Christian and they'll tell you they are right about living the Way of Christ.

S0-I would venture to say he is right- EVERYONE has biases....GOOD BAD or OTHERWISE. How the let that view control what they do is a whole nother thing...

It's sad that people use religion to justify the things they do- Physical Terroism or Emotional/Propoganda Terrorism. They are making a choice...and then bending the religion to say what they want it to.

Hey, this guys gets it. Spot on!

See, it's the same old intellectually lazy and dishonest partisan crowd (I'm looking at you Bevo - AGAIN) who chooses to see Islam as a monolithic entity because it fits their self-serving world-view. Take the blinders off and educate yourselves, people.

Brett

+1

 

[Rocketman]

They claimed it, they're known - nobody else has claimed it.

But, when a group (such as a religion) as a whole does not stand up to the massive use of its name in violence, then they are culpable in the atrocities committed under their name. There are Islamic groups who are crying out against the violence perpetrated in their name but they are a vocal minority. There is still a very large silent majority that do NOTHING. You don't see the whole sale slaughter in the name of any other group like you do with Islam.

I agree completely with PropStop here. Where is the public outrage from the "billions" of moderate Muslims? They choose to remain silent and do nothing while very small minorities of Muslims perpetrate outrageous acts of violence on innocent men women and children in the name of Islam.

Their silence is inexcusable.

 

[OUSOONER]

I agree completely with PropStop here. Where is the public outrage from the "billions" of moderate Muslims? They choose to remain silent and do nothing while very small minorities of Muslims perpetrate outrageous acts of violence on innocent men women and children in the name of Islam.

Their silence is inexcusable.

Their silence IS inexcusable...but when millions of people who are sympathetic to this sort of thing cannot speak out because their government (who sponsors the terrorist attacks) throws them in jail..it's hard to really get a rally going.

 

[exhelodrvr]

Because the only things that make the Western news are the terrorist groups around the world that claim their deeds in the name of Islam. That is what we are going to think.

Not at all. This is NOT just from terrorist groups. This comes from government leaders, government-sponsored news outlets that have been the mouthpieces of the governments, from the main religious leaders. NOT just from terrorists.

 

[OUSOONER]

Not at all. This is NOT just from terrorist groups. This comes from government leaders, government-sponsored news outlets that have been the mouthpieces of the governments, from the main religious leaders. NOT just from terrorists.

What you are talking about is the same thing..that's just semantics. Who do you think funds these terrorist groups? Who do you think provides them safe haven and a place to conduct training? The people you just mentioned. These groups are just another way for these leaders to further their means.

And let me tell you about the media over there....this is just one example. During the 1994 World Cup here in the USA...the Iranian media had a 5-10 minute delay in the coverage. Since it was summertime..and you had people with shirts off and women wearing "not much"...they cut out the back drop of the crowd and inserted a crowd from a European soccer stadium in the winter. I have one of these on tape, its hilarious.

The leadership in those countries go to great lengths to keep their people in the dark. Just out of curiosity I have thumbed through an Iranian middle school level history book...you guys would laugh your ass off. These people are raised in this environment since birth. Some people do have the satellites where they can get news from Europe and the US...but it's usually outlawed in some countries.

Now having gone over there...and having an American passport AND having a mother along who speaks only English, blonde hair/blue eyes.. Many people would come up to us randomly and ask if we were American, these were some of the most polite people I had met..including the government officials at Mehrbad Airport (the main airport in Tehran). They saw we had American passports, they put us to the front of the customs line, while one of the dudes hailed a cab and gathered our luggage, trying to portray a favorable image in front of their "American visitors"....it's just a very backasswards society.

These people have never had any "real" rights..they've been under the same kind of rule for thousands of years..be it a King or a dictator..to expect them to just take to the streets and protest their government and denounce these terrorist groups is beyond them in my opinion...and most of them don't even get the whole story of what is going on over there to even feel outraged.

 

[Brett327]

I agree completely with PropStop here. Where is the public outrage from the "billions" of moderate Muslims? They choose to remain silent and do nothing while very small minorities of Muslims perpetrate outrageous acts of violence on innocent men women and children in the name of Islam.

Their silence is inexcusable.

News flash: The US isn't very popular in many of these places, so what are you expecting? Just because the Muslim community in general isn't out protesting in the streets doesn't make them complicit with the terrorists. There are also lots of people who wouldn't mind if the US (or the West in general) were knocked down a couple notches. Right or wrong, that still doesn't make them complicit with the terrorists. There are lots of progressive and intellectual Muslims who do speak out regularly against terrorism - prominent and otherwise. Do a little research before making sweeping assumptions and generalizations. Don't forget that freedom of speech and of the press is the exception rather than the rule on this planet - factor that in as well. You can't view everything that happens in the world though an American lens and expect to understand them.

Brett

 

[AG3HEATHER]

They are cowards and that is all they know. In Proverbs it says that kings should make war by wise counsel...that is what we are doing and they cannot possibly think outside of the box like us.

 

[OUSOONER]

They are cowards and that is all they know. In Proverbs it says that kings should make war by wise counsel...that is what we are doing and they cannot possibly think outside of the box like us.

Haha YGTBSM!! Do you also have one of those "I vote by the Bible!" bumper stickers? Some Pat Robertson pajamas perhaps? Great first post by the way..that was funny.

 

[eddie]

They are cowards and that is all they know. In Proverbs it says that kings should make war by wise counsel...that is what we are doing and they cannot possibly think outside of the box like us.

You gotta love pronouns...

Wtf are you talking about?

 

[Rocketman]

Their silence IS inexcusable...but when millions of people who are sympathetic to this sort of thing cannot speak out because their government (who sponsors the terrorist attacks) throws them in jail..it's hard to really get a rally going.

I'm not buying it.

The 135,583,938 Muslims in India do not speak out.
The 1,806,840 Muslims in the US do not speak out.
The 30,402 Muslims in Brazil do not speak out.
The 121,062 Muslims in Japan do not speak out.
The 282,622 Muslims in Mexico do not speak out.
The 3,213,639 Muslims in Germany do not speak out.
The 4,396,555 Muslims in France do not speak out.
The 1,640,958 Muslims in the United Kingdom do not speak out.

As far as I'm concerned they all have the blood of innocents on their hands for not at least trying to put a stop to it.

(Edited to correct the numbers)

 

[LazersGoPEWPEW]

I'm not buying it.

The 1,129,866,154 Muslims in India do not speak out.
The 301,139,947 Muslims in the US do not speak out.
The 190,010,647 Muslims in Brazil do not speak out.
The 127,433,494 Muslims in Japan do not speak out.
The 108,700,891 Muslims in Mexico do not speak out.
The 82,400,996 Muslims in Germany do not speak out.
The 63,718,187 Muslims in France do not speak out.
The 60,776,238 Muslims in the United Kingdom do not speak out.

As far as I'm concerned they all have the blood of innocents on their hands for not at least trying to put a stop to it.

Actually you're just quoting populations across the board. There aren't that many muslims in any of those countries.

 

[OUSOONER]

I'm not buying it.

The 1,129,866,154 Muslims in India do not speak out.
The 301,139,947 Muslims in the US do not speak out.
The 190,010,647 Muslims in Brazil do not speak out.
The 127,433,494 Muslims in Japan do not speak out.
The 108,700,891 Muslims in Mexico do not speak out.
The 82,400,996 Muslims in Germany do not speak out.
The 63,718,187 Muslims in France do not speak out.
The 60,776,238 Muslims in the United Kingdom do not speak out.

As far as I'm concerned they all have the blood of innocents on their hands for not at least trying to put a stop to it.

Are we marching in the streets because women are being stoned to death? Did we go to Afghanistan because we got sick of innocent people being hung for minor crimes?

Had we not personally been attacked on 9/11 we would be watching this one from the sidelines too. Half those countries you listed...their NON-Muslims are actually actively protesting US.

 

[Rocketman]

News flash: The US isn't very popular in many of these places, so what are you expecting? Just because the Muslim community in general isn't out protesting in the streets doesn't make them complicit with the terrorists. There are also lots of people who wouldn't mind if the US (or the West in general) were knocked down a couple notches. Right or wrong, that still doesn't make them complicit with the terrorists. There are lots of progressive and intellectual Muslims who do speak out regularly against terrorism - prominent and otherwise. Do a little research before making sweeping assumptions and generalizations. Don't forget that freedom of speech and of the press is the exception rather than the rule on this planet - factor that in as well. You can't view everything that happens in the world though an American lens and expect to understand them.

Brett

Points well made and well taken. That said, if they are not speaking out against terrorism because they want to see the US taken down a notch or two what does that say about their sense of humanity? The great majority of people being killed are not American citizens anyway.

 

[m0tbaillie]

The group that claimed responsibility was the Deccan Mujahedeen, a muslim group.

Yes, they have had violence from other groups, notably Hindi. You don't see, on a world wide scale, the suffering caused in the name of other religions like you do suffering caused in the name of Islam. In the past, yes, Christianity was absolutely awful, along with most other religions - save maybe Buddhist.

The people who commit these atrocities in the name of Islam are not true Muslims in any sense. They're nothing more than batshit insane radicals who execute horrible atrocities and through some contrived, maligned sense of dogmatic approval they attempt to explain their actions to the uneducated masses by appealing to the Qu'ran and religion. They're not Muslims, just like militant evangelicals and the Westboro Country Baptist Church aren't Christians (yet picket funerals in the name of religion), either.

They claimed it, they're known - nobody else has claimed it.

Yes, religion can be a crutch, a tool that evil people can use to warp the weak minded to do their bidding. But, when a group (such as a religion) as a whole does not stand up to the massive use of its name in violence, then they are culpable in the atrocities committed under their name. There are Islamic groups who are crying out against the violence perpetrated in their name but they are a vocal minority. There is still a very large silent majority that do NOTHING. You don't see the whole sale slaughter in the name of any other group like you do with Islam.

You can claim all day that the religion isn't bad, that it's the people who are bad - and that's mostly true. But at a certain point you have to look at the message of the religion itself. The Koran is a violent book. The religion is violent. So are parts of the bible and aspects of Christianity - but Christians learned (largely) and grew up, Islam did the opposite.

I should caveat this by saying I am not a Christian, I do not go to church, so I'm not here to say Christianity is better. I personally don't care which religion is better, I just want this kind of BS, perpetrated in the name of Islam, to end.

Sir you can caveat your posts by saying anything you want in your own defense but it absolutely does not change the fact that you do not understand the basic tenants of Islam nor fundamentalist fringe groups that carry out horrible acts while using it's name (Islam) as a guise for their own crazy. Just because a group or groups come out and carry out extremely violent acts in the name of <insert religion here> does not mean it is anything short of willful ignorance to claim that an entire religion is inherently violent. And how are Muslims going to collectively stand up to extremism? It's not as if many people are in a position to stand up to well-funded militant extremists with automatic weapons. Joe Blow Muslim is just trying to get by like everybody else and is more than likely extremely far-removed from this bullshit. The people who DO support and promulgate this behavior are uneducated, extremely poor villagers and individuals without any semblance of proper education or knowledge of anything worldly.

The Quran and Hadith promote forcibly causing "people of the book" to submit, convert, or die, and it's in there more than a few times.

My understanding is that the concept of Jihad literally translates to what we do not want to believe. The 90+% of Muslims and Muslim governments who choose not to participate or encourage are the secular ones.

But, I still have a lot of learning to go.

I've read the Qu'ran cover to cover in two different languages and it says nothing of the sort. If you think Islam still has a long way to go, consider that when Christianity was in between waging the Crusades and the Wars of Religion (in and around the Renaissance), the Ottoman Empire was allowing conquered Jews and Christians within their empire to freely practice the religion of their choosing and there still, to this day, stands a couple dozen active churches and synagogues in Istanbul.

 

[Rocketman]

Actually you're just quoting populations across the board. There aren't that many muslims in any of those countries.

You are correct of course. My apologies, my cut and paste foo is weak this morning. I'll edit the original with a note added.

I still stand by my basic point.