Naval aviation

[Brett327]

too often medications just mask the problem and do not fix it, then they feel they are fine and quit meds and the problem is back.

This statement belies a fundamental misunderstanding about the role of meds in the treatment of mental health disorders.

As I eluded to earlier, some disorders require a life long commitment to meds. In these cases, their purpose is not to fix the underlying problem, but to allow the patient to be somewhat functional.

 

[Pags]

This statement belies a fundamental misunderstanding about the role of meds in the treatment of mental health disorders.

As I eluded to earlier, some disorders require a life long commitment to meds. In these cases, their purpose is not to fix the underlying problem, but to allow the patient to be somewhat functional.

Psychiatric meds ≠ physical meds. It's not like giving your kids 10 days of antibiotics to make their earache go away. In some cases, as Brett said, meds are a lifetime thing due to underlying cause such as chemical/hormonal imbalance. In cases like that there's no fixing it, just managing it. In other cases, issues can go away as brain chemistry or underlying cause is removed or mitigated.

 

[Gatordev]

I know this is beyond the scope of the thread, but...

I don't think many clinical psychologists or psychiatrists would agree with that statement. If that were true, therapies and medications wouldn't exist. In some cases, being on medication for the rest of your life is exactly what healing means. You're universalizing your own suboptimal experience, which isn't helpful.

It is interesting, though, how many anecdotes from service members who go to "psyc-docs" (and bear with me, I'm using that term to cover multiple disciplines within the various mental health spectrums) and find the method of treatment or supposed reason for diagnosis to not necessarily match reality. I'm NOT saying the docs are intentionally sabotaging the patient, as may be perceived, but instead it seems like a common protocol is to find a base causal factor that aligns with a profession, push that on the patient, and then work from there. In reality, that may not be the case, but allows for an out for the patient if they choose to go down that path, even if it's not actually true.

I was actually having this exact conversation yesterday with someone (military) who goes to a therapist and had that happen to him. I think this discussion has come up in another thread, and at the time, I mentioned I had another sailor that had this happen to him when the reality may have been more chemical than mental (if you'll indulge me in over-simplifying it).

I guess, like anything, it's finding the right solution for the individual, coupled with finding the right professional that jives with the individual's needs. Seems like a universal problem to solve, no matter what the issue may be.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

This statement belies a fundamental misunderstanding about the role of meds in the treatment of mental health disorders.

As I eluded to earlier, some disorders require a life long commitment to meds. In these cases, their purpose is not to fix the underlying problem, but to allow the patient to be somewhat functional.

Having had some family (distant) with mental illness I stand by my statement, too many will put people on meds without digging into the issues, my cousins daughter will forever be on meds because she does need them to be as you said "somewhat functional" which is spot on for her situation.

In another case one was put on anti depressants for several years until finally it came out she was being molested, that person was taken care of and she is no longer on meds and doing fairly well considering what she endured, if the first psychiatrist had done a better job the issue may have been found out earlier.

I would bet you would be surprised how many kids/young adults are being medicated without truly being treated.

 

[Brett327]

I'm NOT saying the docs are intentionally sabotaging the patient, as may be perceived, but instead it seems like a common protocol is to find a base causal factor that aligns with a profession, push that on the patient, and then work from there. In reality, that may not be the case, but allows for an out for the patient if they choose to go down that path, even if it's not actually true.

Granted, but in a military context, the mental health folks are either looking for a quick fix to get the individual back in the game, or find cause to medically DQ them... just like a flight doc would. So the military mental health system isn't designed for people with chronic mental health issues, as that's typically not compatible with military service. That's a very different model than you'd find in a civilian clinical environment.

 

[Brett327]

if the first psychiatrist had done a better job the issue may have been found out earlier.

That seems awfully reductivist. Maybe she wasn't ready to reveal the abuse at that point. It's not like a shrink can dangle a pocket watch in front of a patient and extract every detail of that person's history.

 

[Pags]

Having had some family (distant) with mental illness I stand by my statement, too many will put people on meds without digging into the issues, my cousins daughter will forever be on meds because she does need them to be as you said "somewhat functional" which is spot on for her situation.

In another case one was put on anti depressants for several years until finally it came out she was being molested, that person was taken care of and she is no longer on meds and doing fairly well considering what she endured, if the first psychiatrist had done a better job the issue may have been found out earlier.

I would bet you would be surprised how many kids/young adults are being medicated without truly being treated.

You can't expect a psychiatrist to be a wizard or detective and to get to root cause if the patient doesn't discuss it.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

That seems awfully reductivist. Maybe she wasn't ready to reveal the abuse at that point. It's not like a shrink can dangle a pocket watch in front of a patient and extract every detail of that person's history.

You can't expect a psychiatrist to be a wizard or detective and to get to root cause if the patient doesn't discuss it.

I agree, but if he would have spent more than 15 or 30 min talking to her before prescribing meds maybe just maybe it would have ended earlier, mental issues are hard for people to discuss and it can take more than 1 meeting to get to the issue.

My nephews teacher said he had ADHD because he was distracted in school and he had trouble doing homework, my sister took him to the doc who said he probably has ADHD and prescribed meds after asking him only a few questions, of course no one brought up that he was playing video games until 2 am and neither my sister or ex brother in law made him do his homework or restricted his access to video games.

Too many parents and doctors are failing kids/young adults today.

 

[Swanee]

I have a friend of mine that saw patients until he passed away, and he hated prescribing meds, he took the time to dive into the real problem and looked at ways to avoid meds and still fix the problem, he always said there will be people that need meds, but there are far more that won't if we listen and solve the real problem.

That doesn't work for many/most mental health disorders. You can't stop taking psychotropic drugs and expect to not revert to a previous state.

Mood disorders are (most times) permanent chemical changes in the brain. Bipolar disorder does not go into remission, severe depression doesn't go into remission. They are managed with medication, therapy, and lifestyle changes.

Current mental health professionals understand that mental health disorders are from physical changes in brain chemistry. There is a HUGE difference between a bad day and depression. You can't talk yourself out of depression. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Brett327]

I agree, but if he would have spent more than 15 or 30 min talking to her before prescribing meds maybe just maybe it would have ended earlier, mental issues are hard for people to discuss and it can take more than 1 meeting to get to the issue.

My nephews teacher said he had ADHD because he was distracted in school and he had trouble doing homework, my sister took him to the doc who said he probably has ADHD and prescribed meds after asking him only a few questions, of course no one brought up that he was playing video games until 2 am and neither my sister or ex brother in law made him do his homework or restricted his access to video games.

Too many parents and doctors are failing kids/young adults today.

Dude, you’re killing me here. You keep bringing up examples where critical information was withheld from the Psychiatrist, then making it their fault for not divining the true situation. Seriously? ? That’s bizarre as fuck.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Dude, you’re killing me here. You keep bringing up examples where critical information was withheld from the Psychiatrist, then making it their fault for not divining the true situation. Seriously? ? That’s bizarre as fuck.

You are getting part of my point, they can't properly diagnose what they aren't told, but if they don't spend time asking probing questions than they won't get the answers to find the problem.

Given how private people are about mental illness, abuse, etc... it is not realistic that 2 questions in 15 minutes will give the answers needed, the psychiatrists I have known would spend time and ask "why" and "can you explain further" to get better answers, you could tell when talking to them they were caring people who truly wanted to help people.

Maybe you haven't had family members that have been the subject of snap diagnosis because the doctor just wants to move to the next patient and throw meds at them, but it has done those families no favors.

There are times that medication is the right answer.

 

[DeltaV]

As my first post ever on this forum I will say this, I am a 21 year old Aero Eng student 3.4 gpa graduating in 2022. As a freshman in college I was having trouble adjusting to living away from home for the first time. Went to a shrink reluctantly because my mother asked me to. The shrink then asked me to go to a psychiatrist at the school clinic. Within that same week, I sat down for 15 minutes with a nurse practitioner and walked out with Lexapro.

They kept me on that shit for 7 months until I wanted out. Nobody even addressed my problems, just gave me fucking pills. And because I was an 18 year old kid who didn't know shit, I went with it without asking questions or standing up for myself because I thought I had to. They made me think I had a mental illness for being homesick and adjusting to a completely new lifestyle and intimidating surroundings as a brand new adult.

After all, "who am I to second guess a medical professional" I thought in my new adulthood mindset.

Now I am fucked for anything Military/Aviation unless I lie. Which I am not gonna do. Its eating me alive.

Perfectly healthy otherwise.

Makes me never want to go to a doctor again tbh.

 

[Brett327]

Now I am fucked for anything Military/Aviation unless I lie.

Absolutely false. Most mental health issues are waiverable if you’re off meds and asymptotic for a year.

 

[DeltaV]

Absolutely false. Most mental health issues are waiverable if you’re off meds and asymptotic for a year.

NAMI really hates it and my chances are slim. I have already talked to some guys out of NAS Pensacola and they all say the same shit I just posted. They all say it will be years of waiver bureaucracy and still being denied at MEPS, and definitely at NAMI if I even get that far.

Also I am gonna have to get prescription/medical records for the past 7+ and have them scrutinized, and who knows what can of worms that will open. I don't know if its worth going through the recruiting process, MEPS, OCS, just to get whammied and have to re designate to something I have no interest in.

I think what really bothers me is that everyone I have talked to currently in the navy (including winged aviators) are telling me to keep my mouth shut if it was a one time thing, and they will never know, but that rubs me the wrong way. It would be so easy.

moral of the story: don't go to the doctor unless you are close to flatlining

 

[exNavyOffRec]

NAMI really hates it and my chances are slim. I have already talked to some guys out of NAS Pensacola and they all say the same shit I just posted. They all say it will be years of waiver bureaucracy and still being denied at MEPS, and definitely at NAMI if I even get that far.

Also I am gonna have to get prescription/medical records for the past 7+ and have them scrutinized, and who knows what can of worms that will open. I don't know if its worth going through the recruiting process, MEPS, OCS, just to get whammied and have to re designate to something I have no interest in.

I think what really bothers me is that everyone I have talked to currently in the navy (including winged aviators) are telling me to keep my mouth shut if it was a one time thing, and they will never know, but that rubs me the wrong way. It would be so easy.

moral of the story: don't go to the doctor unless you are close to flatlining

Not true, Brett said 1 year but I think the standard for non prior service is 3 now, it has gone up and down over the years but his point is valid.

I am guessing you are close to 3 years now, and gathering your records is the right step, then they will be looked at and most likely MEPS will say no, then the OR will send to N3M who should give the OK to get a physical as long as you didn't have thoughts of suicide. It is probable that you will need a consult and yes it could take months or a year, but in the end if it takes a year to get in and you have a 20+ career you enjoy isn't it worth it?

If by some chance after you get in and NAMI then says "no" you can redesignate OR you can go home.