Naval Officer or Police Officer

[rare21]

As a retired Naval Aviator and now current police officer......join the Navy and have fun with it. A PD will be there when you get out of the Navy, the Navy will not wait for you! I never applied for federal law enforcement because I wanted to be on the street making contacts and being in the muck. If you go into a PD after the Navy you will see the vast differences..especially from the aviation community. In the military your squadron was your family, they were there to help you and cared about your well being. One of the first rules of being an officer was "take care of your men." That is completely lost in a police dept, especially mine. Its every man for himself and how good each person looks individually in front of the brass. If you are hurt they'll care more for a doctor's excuse than how you are doing. Thats just my experience. Also if you have good military experience when you join a dept you will not be stuck there like those that have nothing more than a GED and cannot get a job elsewhere. When the brass threatens them and treats them like shit they have to sit and take it. I have my college degree, pilot's license and military officer experience to fly me out of a morale sucking dept. Of course this is just my experience.

 

[C420sailor]

More like Accountants/MBAs who get immersed in legal domain (like a police officer) although some get to do higher speed stuff.

Exactly. My dad was attached to an FBI unit for a while, as a local police detective. He said that a lot of those guys will work on a case for years, all for a single collar. That would drive most police officers insane.

 

[Scoob]

That is completely lost in a police dept, especially mine. Its every man for himself and how good each person looks individually in front of the brass.

Wow, this sounds vaguely familiar. I just can't place my finger on where I've seen this kind of thing in the Navy.

Give me a minute, it'll come to me...

 

[rare21]

Wow, this sounds vaguely familiar. I just can't place my finger on where I've seen this kind of thing in the Navy.

Give me a minute, it'll come to me...

well you'll be right at home then....smilies abound

 

[Tomodachi]

I'm a police officer in the Navy and see both sides of the fence. The Navy is a GREAT opportunity to explore outside your home city, learn, meet new people, and have a rewarding experience. However, being a police officer in your home town will make it easier on family/home life as there are no deployments or travel. You really gotta weigh your options. If you have the slightest itch to join the Navy and experience something AWESOME then I recommend getting a commission and becoming an officer in the Navy. As others have said, the PD will be there when you finish your service and you will not regret joining the Navy.

 

[getawaydriver]

For what it is worth, I am in one of the federal agencies mentioned in this post and am currently in the final stages of securing an OCS date for either NA/FO.

I have a culmination of three plus years in field activity and analysis, but the dream has been to be a Navy Officer and aviator/FO.

Essentially, you need to sit down and have a personal, "come to Jesus moment". The Fed will always be hiring qualified former military, just as several police departments will. The age cutoffs for 1811 are 37 and that is being waived on a case-by-case basis for those coming in with relevant experience and no serious medical/health issues aside from the usual wear and tear.

The following largely relates to the federal level. I can't speak for state/local level.

What you need to consider is if you want to ultimately pursue a federal/state/local career in traditional law enforcement (eg, bank robberies, organized crime, drug trafficking, etc) or pursue a career in federal law enforcement/intelligence (eg, collection, counterterrorism, counterintelligence, etc).

I bring this up because you have a degree in CJ. Places such as the FBI are taking a real turn from hiring the traditional CJ major with 3-5 years of LE experience (think 15 years ago). A lot of 1811s and analysts coming in are now prior military. Those that have degrees have them in everything from chemistry to specific regional area studies to English literature and marketing. This is due to the top priorities of performing counterterrorism and counterintelligence investigations since entering this brave new world on SEP2001.

Agencies that are more law enformcement oriented (to certain degrees in their own right), are more inclined to hire the cop/CJ formula. Think DEA, Marshals, ATF, etc.

Military service will help you in securing a position, in your next life, with more intelligence oriented places. Places that still do the real rough and tumble federal level police work, eg USMS, ATF, ICE would be more inclined to take the CJ/LE profile. This is not, by any means, set in stone but is just the general trend as of now. And as trends go, they change.

Ultimately, you can apply for and get whatever you want as long as you perform well as either a cop or Navy Officer and market yourself well during that job interview at the field office/station of your agency of choice.

With specific regards to the CIA, keep in mind that military service (in combat arms definitely, not sure about other designators/MOSs) will allow you to apply for the paramilitary officer position (PMO). So, if you want to pursue a career in OPs, that is something to further keep in mind.

Also, don't forget NCIS and AFOSI (both shops are very good) =D

Best of luck to you and your future pursuits (literally and figuratively).

 

[Pancakes]

alright first off, thanks for the great replies so far.

I have to give a response to the police department by the beginning of next week because they would like me to either take the conditional offer or not. Ive been told by a few people that if I take the offer (thus buying myself several weeks more time to wait for the navy's response), then i can write a polite letter that relieves me from the hiring process for the police (polygraph, medical, psych) in order to continue forward with the navy when I hear back from my recruiter about the results of the January boards.

Does this sound like a good way about doing this or am I just pissing off a police department?

Oh also, getaway driver, i forgot to mention in my original post but ATF USMS are more of the departments i'd love to work in. I'm generally open to any department on the federal level.

 

[GroundPounder]

alright first off, thanks for the great replies so far.





Oh also, getaway driver, i forgot to mention in my original post but ATF USMS are more of the departments i'd love to work in. I'm generally open to any department on the federal level.

I would advise you that whatever you decide to do, when / if you apply for a federal LE job, that you do some research. The ATF, FBI, USMS, have all been portrayed in populuar entertainment about as accurately as Top Gun does Naval Aviation. There are some high speed postions in each of these agencies, but they all involve a pretty high percentage of office work.

When I got out of the Army as an officer, I took a job at a police department to get a few years in and then go to a federal job. The more I saw what that entailed vs. what I was doing, the less it appealed to me. Your mileage my vary.

I would agree with the others who have advised on going the Navy route first, then LE. They will always be an agency or department willing to hire you as a former commissioned officer even though you will be a little older than the average new college graduate, the reverse will probably not apply to the Navy.

 

[getawaydriver]

Glad to help.

Keep going with the process and remember, you can always remove yourself when the final offer comes through. I deferred an academy date with another agency on three separate occasions. They needed people and anyone they had in the breach they were willing to work with. Good thing I went elsewhere because it would have not been a good fit.

If they give you shit for going into the military, then, frankly, "f" them. If you do decline the final offer, just politely explain your decision to go into the military but that you may reapply once you decide to end your service if you decide not to go career. Polite, respectful and to the point.

Honestly, based on my experience, intel is a great fit for future LE/Intelligence work. Intelligence is self-explanatory and, LE is so heavily intel driven (eg snitches, surveillance, wires, etc) that it will give you a great platform for the transition into the Fed.

Just a heads up too, if you go USMS, you will be spending a lot of time working prisoners before hitting a field office. Just be prepared to really earn your lumps. Sort of like being the new Secret Service guy and watching a dumpster or fire escape for 10 hours. Motivating!

 

[getawaydriver]

I would advise you that whatever you decide to do, when / if you apply for a federal LE job, that you do some research. The ATF, FBI, USMS, have all been portrayed in populuar entertainment about as accurately as Top Gun does Naval Aviation. There are some high speed postions in each of these agencies, but they all involve a pretty high percentage of office work.

When I got out of the Army, as an officer I took a job at a police department to get a few years in and then go to a federal job. The more I saw what that entailed vs. what I was doing, the less it appealed to me. Your mileage my vary.

I would agree with the others who have advised on going the Navy route first, then LE. They will always be an agency or department willing to hire you as a former commissioned officer even though you will be a little older than the average new college graduate, the reverse will probably not apply to the Navy.

Excellent points too. The jobs are very different, 1811/analyst vs police officer and then take that compared to the crap on TV. As I said, you have decide, and this will come in time, if you want to be a cop, agent or an intel dude.

The former is about 80% desk and paperwork (regarding my agency); while I cannot directly speak to the latter, it is much more field intensive, and that is merely once you hit an investigative position such as detective or whatnot. Patrol is patrol.

 

[Pancakes]

Thanks for the great info..ill go ahead and continue with the process as you mentioned and continue waiting for the navy's response..I'm hoping my package is good enough to get me into the position i'm applying for:

(1st - Intel, 2nd - Pilot, 3rd - SWO)
22/M
ASTB 44 -- I actually ran out of time on the math section
3.29 GPA from central conn state - Criminology major
LORs - O-3 Nuke, O-2 SWO, Professor, Former employer
Extracurricular - Baseball, X-Country, Wrestling, Tennis (4 Years in HS), Parkour Freerunner, Municipal police explorers, Deans list
Flight Experience: RC Planes (hah)
Clean history (with the exception of speeding ticket)

I also revised my motivational statement within my application dozens of times and had it checked and read over by many including navy personnel. I also have two brothers within the officer ranks and a retired father (i'm hoping the navy's family tradition helps me out here).

 

[phrogdriver]

Good find. I checked the FBI's website and it looks like they got the memo.

From fbijobs.gov:

I looked around a little. FBI says that now, but DEA does not. ATF specifically says that veterans' preference will not affect the age cut-off. Oddly Diplomatic Security's website makes no mention of age-waivers yet. They were the outfit that got sued for not allowing veterans to get in after age 37.

The reason for the age limit is so that one can get 20 years before the "mandatory" federal law enforcement retirement at 57. DSS had a 60-year-old special agent, so they were basically told, "Apparently being above 57 isn't a problem for you--maybe you should rethink your entry policies."

 

[phrogdriver]

From the Secret Service website:

On August 26, 2009, the Office of Personnel Management (OPM) published a memorandum for all Heads of Departments and Executive Agencies related to hiring of preference eligible veterans applying for federal positions with maximum entry-age restrictions.
As directed by OPM, the U.S. Secret Service will conduct an analysis of all Secret Service positions having maximum entry age restrictions to determine whether a maximum entry age requirement is essential to the performance of the position. Applicants eligible for veterans? preference who exceed the current maximum entry age requirement will continue to be processed during this ongoing analysis. No final determination regarding affected applicants will be made until completion of this analysis. If it is the determination of the U.S. Secret Service that the requirement is not essential to the position, then the Agency will waive the maximum entry-age requirement for veteran?s preference eligible applicants for that position

Sounds like there may be good news, at least after awhile, at some of the agencies.

Guess I might not have screwed myself from federal LE by staying in--you can have your cake and eat it too! Maybe.

 

[phrogdriver]

Checking on OPM.gov's site it says that retirees at major/LCDR or higher do not qualify for veteran's preference unless they are disabled veterans. That bummed me out. Does claiming the standard 10% disability for my ruined hearing count? Would admitting "disability" for that (presumably the only disability I might legitimately claim) limit my employment in federal law enforcement or any civilian aviation jobs?

I've read the story about the guy who claimed a big deafness disability while working for an airline. I'm not talking about that. I've been told, though, that a good number of aviators claim, and get, 10%, just due to the high-frequency hearing loss that's very common in military aviation.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Checking on OPM.gov's site it says that retirees at major/LCDR or higher do not qualify for veteran's preference unless they are disabled veterans.

Not entirely true. You will qualify for the 5 point hiring preference for being a Vet. The 10 point hiring preference is for disabled vets. I haven't seen anything on the VA's website to discount that. I don't know what OPM is talking about... It doesn't line up with anything I've learned post-active duty, and I've talked to one or two VA people (the dudes that determine your hiring preference).