NEWS Navy Launches TBI Study For Fighter Pilots

[PhrogLoop]

…all too often, the result is a bunch of unserious, wet behind the ears Navy Times reporters flailing their arms for clicks on a topic they barely understand.

@Brett327 I see it differently. I think that the colorful media exaggerations call attention to the issue, and that’s a good thing. Case in point, look at how media and Hollywood dramatizations of NFL concussions have completely changed the discourse and preceded actual change in the sport all the way down to the youth levels. Even a fraction of that kind of attention to this issue can’t hurt. And both examples call attention to what we’re all learning: repeated sustained injuries to the brain are bad, bad.

 

[WhiskeySierra6]

Nowhere have I said anything like this. My critique of what's in the NYT story is that we'll get a bunch of half-measures that wind up not serving those affected.

If those who pull the levers classify the issue as "angst and conspiracy theories", I doubt they're even going to institute half measures. I don't know whether you believe that constant exposure to a high G environment has deleterious effects on aircrew is BS or 100% certain or somewhere in between (probably this if I had to guess). But I think you and I both know, the Navy isn't doing anything without significant pressure. That's my criticism of the Navy. Not of you. Unless you agree with that as an appropriate response.

 

[SynixMan]

Lisanne Rosales, his wife at the time, said she urged her husband to seek counseling, but Navy regulations can restrict pilots with a diagnosed mental health condition from flying. If he disclosed his issues, she recalled him telling her, the Navy would ground him, effectively ending his career.

God I fucking hate NAMI.

 

[MIDNJAC]

My old boat roommate from 2014, my TO at the time, was the second suicide they referenced in this article (but left un-named). Probably my biggest mentor of my career, and was 100% of the reason I decided to apply for and got into the 'GUN. I don't really think this is the answer, since we have been flying jet fighters capable of heavy G for many decades now (why would the Super Hornet suddenly be different?), but I appreciate them maybe considering the question. It has been a bad few years.

 

[Brett327]

If those who pull the levers classify the issue as "angst and conspiracy theories", I doubt they're even going to institute half measures. I don't know whether you believe that constant exposure to a high G environment has deleterious effects on aircrew is BS or 100% certain or somewhere in between (probably this if I had to guess). But I think you and I both know, the Navy isn't doing anything without significant pressure. That's my criticism of the Navy. Not of you. Unless you agree with that as an appropriate response.

OK, so where are we at with all those studies (and ominous Navy Times stories) about aircraft radars and cancer? Problem solved, right? Prompt action by the Government? I think you're confusing my cynicism with a lack of concern.

 

[WhiskeySierra6]

OK, so where are we at with all those studies (and ominous Navy Times stories) about aircraft radars and cancer? Problem solved, right? Prompt action by the Government? I think you're confusing my cynicism with a lack of concern.

I think we may be in violent agreement here. Problem not solved. No action by the government. I fully recognize your cynicism and am right there with you. Definitely not tracking lack of concern as one of your motivations. I just want the government's default response to be "there may be a problem, let's do something about it" instead of "without concrete evidence or a court order best I can do is a colorful rubber wristband for awareness".

 

[sevenhelmet]

OK, so where are we at with all those studies (and ominous Navy Times stories) about aircraft radars and cancer? Problem solved, right? Prompt action by the Government? I think you're confusing my cynicism with a lack of concern.

I share your cynicism. Especially when the VA gets involved and creates a confusing system to "apply for benefits", and then tells you your TBI iS nOT sERviCE CoNNEcted. Benefits denied.

NAMI sucks. The VA sucks even more.

ETA: Our political environment being what it is, I only see funding and bureaucratic squeeze becoming worse in the years to come. I'd like to be wrong about that, but experience suggests otherwise.

 

[SynixMan]

I share your cynicism. Especially when the VA gets involved and creates a confusing system to "apply for benefits", and then tells you your TBI iS nOT sERviCE CoNNEcted. Benefits denied.

NAMI sucks. The VA sucks even more.

ETA: Our political environment being what it is, I only see funding and bureaucratic squeeze becoming worse in the years to come. I'd like to be wrong about that, but experience suggests otherwise.

Have you dealt with the VA? I’ve actually found them reasonably good. The issue is people hiding stuff from nami then claiming it out the door.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Have you dealt with the VA? I’ve actually found them reasonably good. The issue is people hiding stuff from nami then claiming it out the door.

Yes, and (without getting into too much detail) my experience has been not good when it comes to the VA denying claims that are clearly indicated in my AD record. Nothing has been hidden from NAMI, the FAA, or anyone else.

The VA’s excuses for denying a particular service connection have been flimsy, at best. This includes higher level reviews. Their methods for follow up actions have been even worse- both administratively, and with prospective treatment. Twice, their representation has outright called me a liar, despite my medical records indicating the exact verbiage I used in my claims. When I point this out, it is dismissed as irrelevant, despite them asking for that information as part of the claim.

I have seen too many friends come away from VA appointments with similar denial issues, or overprescribed with meds for basic things that resulted in chemical dependency or worse.

So yeah, I’ve dealt with and just plain don’t trust the VA. I frankly think they’re a contributing factor in far too many veteran suicides, and I thank my lucky stars that my service connected concerns are reasonably minor and could be taken care of with civilian care providers.

 

[Brett327]

Yes, and (without getting into too much detail) my experience has been not good when it comes to the VA denying claims that are clearly indicated in my AD record. Nothing has been hidden from NAMI, the FAA, or anyone else.

The VA’s excuses for denying a particular service connection have been flimsy, at best. This includes higher level reviews. Their methods for follow up actions have been even worse- both administratively, and with prospective treatment. Twice, their representation has outright called me a liar, despite my medical records indicating the exact verbiage I used in my claims. When I point this out, it is dismissed as irrelevant, despite them asking for that information as part of the claim.

I have seen too many friends come away from VA appointments with similar denial issues, or overprescribed with meds for basic things that resulted in chemical dependency or worse.

So yeah, I’ve dealt with and just plain don’t trust the VA. I frankly think they’re a contributing factor in far too many veteran suicides, and I thank my lucky stars that my service connected concerns are reasonably minor and could be taken care of with civilian care providers.

Did you not establish service connection for your issues prior to getting out? I'm going through this now... getting absolutely everything in my record, even if it isn't currently bothering me, because the service connection will be documented. For example, I suffered a severe ankle sprain during OCS, which hasn't really bothered me since I fully healed. I will claim it for my VA, which will get a 0% rating, but if it degenerates 10 years down the road and causes me trouble, that groundwork will already be laid and I can get a percentage rating much easier.

FWIW, I've heard that the VA in Portland, OR is one of the best in the country, for those of you in the area.

 

[hscs]

The VA’s excuses for denying a particular service connection have been flimsy, at best. This includes higher level reviews. Their methods for follow up actions have been even worse- both administratively, and with prospective treatment. Twice, their representation has outright called me a liar, despite my medical records indicating the exact verbiage I used in my claims. When I point this out, it is dismissed as irrelevant, despite them asking for that information as part of the claim.

I assume that there’s some sort of hotline / IG process - seems like this situation is why we have that process.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Long boring post warning.

Did you not establish service connection for your issues prior to getting out?

FWIW, I've heard that the VA in Portland, OR is one of the best in the country, for those of you in the area.

Yes. I had several things documented, and I do have a rating for an old shoulder injury, which I have posted about on this forum in the past. They did do the right thing there, and even surprised me with a 20% rating. The other issue is dental, with very clear service connection (and delayed treatment due to deployment) in my records from China Lake and Lemoore. However, the VA treats dental issues very differently, and it’s frankly bullshit. I’m not looking for payout, just acknowledgement of service connection on paper, in case an underlying condition requires something in future- similar to your reasoning with the ankle. I paid a lot of money to fix the underlying dental diagnosis on my own a few years ago, so the VA’s advice to seek treatment first and get entered in “their system” is OBE.

I assume that there’s some sort of hotline / IG process - seems like this situation is why we have that process.

I don’t think this rises to that threshold. To sum up a lot of head scratching and paperwork, the VA is following their own procedures, designed to minimize dental claims (their words, not mine). An IG would probably reveal me as the asshole for trying three times to get a dental claim service connected when their procedure indicates seeking treatment from a VA dentist. What annoys me is the completely insufficient guidance WRT dental claims differences. Why I can’t get a service connection of my claim and THEN seek treatment from a VA dentist (similar to medical claims) is beyond me. Also beyond me is why dental and medical are treated so differently ($u$pect I know the an$wer). It took three VA claims attempts for me to learn all this- they just kept rejecting them for “not service connected” and I didn’t know why. Nobody said “Seek treatment from your VA Dentist” until I got the higher level review guy on the phone. Waste of my time and theirs. Even the VA-approved dentist evaluating my record for the claim didn’t know better. Since this is all clearly and explicitly documented in my AD service dental record, I found it highly irksome there was no specific up-front guidance for dental claims.

[TL;DR] AD guys, get all your shit documented before you get out. Dental works differently because fuck yo’ grill- use a VSO to navigate the admin process for your claim(s).

Sorry for the threadjack. We can all move on from here.

 

[Fallonflyr]

I remember a happy hour conversation with our Doc about the long term effects of flying a Cat IV fighter…his answer, “I guess we will find out when you guys hit your 50s and 60s”.

 

[ChuckMK23]

To wit -

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1866527264424271893

 

[pilot_man]

Did you not establish service connection for your issues prior to getting out? I'm going through this now... getting absolutely everything in my record, even if it isn't currently bothering me, because the service connection will be documented. For example, I suffered a severe ankle sprain during OCS, which hasn't really bothered me since I fully healed. I will claim it for my VA, which will get a 0% rating, but if it degenerates 10 years down the road and causes me trouble, that groundwork will already be laid and I can get a percentage rating much easier.

FWIW, I've heard that the VA in Portland, OR is one of the best in the country, for those of you in the area.

Having been dealing with the VA disability process for the last 2 1/2 years I will say you should set your expectations very low. Even if you meet the BDD window they will tell you that it is more of a goal and they never hit their goal. The process is excruciatingly slow and absolutely no one at the VA disability side of the organization cares. You will get phone calls from a VA rep during the first year to check up on you. I was yelled at by that person multiple times when I voiced my frustration that the process was taking so long (and they deleted my claim from the system after waiting 9 months so I had to re-file).

I say the disability side because I have been extremely happy with the VA medical side of things. Sure I retired so have tricare, but sometimes it's just easier to use the VA for things like prescription drugs since they mail them to your house, for free.

I guess my thoughts on this thread are this: Is there any meat to the subject of the article? Maybe. We have lost some great dudes but is there a correlation between our jobs and these issues? I don't know, seems like if you have any similar size pool of people you will see the same things in the same ratios but it's at least worth looking into. The issue is by who? It isn't going to be NAMI or your flight Docs since their jobs are to keep people flying and they don't really care about the after affects. That should be something taken up by the VA, but as you can see from above, I have zero faith in the VA disability side doing the right thing, ever.

My biggest issue is the Navy playing stupid and giving such a ridiculous response.