Can you describe or point to what the normal exemption process is?What special about vaccines that we need to waive the normal exemption process?
Can you describe or point to what the normal exemption process is?What special about vaccines that we need to waive the normal exemption process?
For someone who loves shotgunning random articles and tweets into this forum, you took an interesting opportunity to be lazy.What’s the latest fatality rates for covid compared to the flu? I’d love to see the data.
You're equating the forcible abstination to an activity to taking a vaccine, and that's just...not the same thing.I’d venture that lung cancer is several orders of magnitude more deadly than covid-19, yet how many companies have banned their employees from making the medical decision to smoke cigarettes? On that note, why hasn’t the military prohibited smoking and other tobacco use? Just as legal, right? Because it’s a preventative medical procedure?
I’m tempted to say figure it out yourself since it’s very well advertised, but whatever. Milpersman 1730-020 is your starting point. The quick version - For a religious exemption to a vaccination, member has to meet with chaplain and get a recommend/non recommend. Has to get briefed by medical on risks of not taking. Has to add a personal statement. CO then makes a recommendation based on a standardized set of criteria to whoever approving authority is.Can you describe or point to what the normal exemption process is?
Can you cite that from a recent source? I couldn’t find anything recent, much less a worldwide versus specific to America one, and I’d hate to pass bad gouge.For someone who loves shotgunning random articles and tweets into this forum, you took an interesting opportunity to be lazy.
The CFR for influenza is 4-8 per 100,000. The CFR for COVID-19 currently sits at 1,600 per 100,000.
You're equating the forcible abstination to an activity to taking a vaccine, and that's just...not the same thing.
As for the military banning smoking and tobacco use, you're just not paying attention. I can tell you that both activities are not authorized while underway on a submarine.
Remember, all these active duty folks are looking at this through their lens and offering their expertise on a thread in the Naval Reserves forum. So they have no idea how policy is going to be applied to our world.Can you describe or point to what the normal exemption process is?
SureCan you cite that from a recent source? I couldn’t find anything recent, much less a worldwide versus specific to America one, and I’d hate to pass bad gouge.
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. I'd imagine there's some study somewhere that says that a complete no-smoking policy among the military would hurt recruitment and retention to the point that the juice isn't worth the squeeze.How is that not a thing? I’m taking the vaccine to ensure force readiness, right? If I’ve had covid, natural immunity is better than the vaccine. Smoking lowers force readiness. That’s an absolute slam dunk no-brainer. By getting a shot, I’m making the Navy more lethal. By stopping smoking, I’m making the Navy more lethal. Is that not the case?
I'm aware the policy isn't universal. The point is that it exists and it isn't overturned on the argument that it violates anyones rights.As for part two, that's comical. You need to broaden your horizons and get out more. The rest of the Navy doesn’t abstain from tobacco use underway. Or ashore.
Got it. No, you can’t cite anything. I’ve googled it and the majority of the data is from the fall 2020 timeframe. A lot has changed since then.Sure
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. I'd imagine there's some study somewhere that says that a complete no-smoking policy among the military would hurt recruitment and retention to the point that the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
I'm aware the policy isn't universal. The point is that it exists and it isn't overturned on the argument that it violates anyones rights.
I'm sorry, I must have missed it... is it your contention that the deadliness of influenza has substantially changed since the year 2000?Got it. No, you can’t cite anything. I’ve googled it and the majority of the data is from the fall 2020 timeframe. A lot has changed since then.
Perhaps you should write the CNO and tell him this. Personally, I would support a force-wide ban in tobacco use, but I can't speak to why that policy hasn't been enacted.If the Navy’s sub force isn’t seeing negative retention rates based on the draconian policy of no smoking or dipping underway, mandate it for the rest of the fleet. Isn’t that the same argument others are using here?
Asking someone to take a shot for 2 seconds is a lot different than asking them to stop tobacco use forever. I'm sorry that your brain can't comprehend this.What I’m getting at is the underlying reason for the vaccination policy in the first place. As someone else pointed out, it doesn’t seem to be a major factor for our military personnel. When you have almost ten times the number of military people killing themselves than are dying of covid, I have trouble seeing the urgent necessity other than for politics’ sake.
Suicide rates are down in the Navy. The suicide issue is almost entirely driven by the USMC and Army, with a helping hand from the USAF recently, and it's not COVID policies that drove the increase.Let me paraphrase the article: suicides rates went up by 15%, but that’s normal even though it’s very bad and isn’t due to covid policies and restrictions. I’m sure that passes the stink check.
No need to get upset. I’m asking you to provide recent, up to date covid IFR data. If it’s so deadly to the military age demographic, surely it must be readily available.I'm sorry, I must have missed it... is it your contention that the deadliness of influenza has substantially changed since the year 2000?
Perhaps you should write the CNO and tell him this. Personally, I would support a force-wide ban in tobacco use, but I can't speak to why that policy hasn't been enacted.
Asking someone to take a shot for 2 seconds is a lot different than asking them to stop tobacco use forever. I'm sorry that your brain can't comprehend this.
Suicide rates are down in the Navy. The suicide issue is almost entirely driven by the USMC and Army, with a helping hand from the USAF recently, and it's not COVID policies that drove the increase.
So what you are saying is that since you made this up and posted it on the internet, it must be true.I don't have an exact count, but it's not uncommon. The flu is also two to three orders of magnitude less deadly than COVID-19.
I'm not upset at all. Surely you must know that the IFR is only possible to estimate, not measure. And surely you know that it's upper bound by the CFR and lower bound by the PFR. Furthermore, I'm sure you know that the flu's average CFR is 4-8 per 100,000 cases and peaks at around 15 per 100,000 cases (btw, this fact was in the abstract of the top scientific article in the lmgtfy link, so I'm not sure why you had difficulty finding it), as opposed to the current COVID-19 CFR of 1,600 per 100,000 cases.No need to get upset. I’m asking you to provide recent, up to date covid IFR data. If it’s so deadly to the military age demographic, surely it must be readily available.
I cited the Navy because it had the most draconian COVID-19 policies, yet suicide is down. What's driving suicide rates? I dunno, maybe it's because we're routinely tasking 18-25 year olds to kill muslim children in countries that have no real ability to defend themselves. The DOD doesn't think so, though. It thinks suicide is a generational problem stemming from millenial and gen z fragile egos, even though the suicide rate is 50% lower than it was in the 1930s.As far as suicide rates, that’s great they’re down in the Navy. But this is a DOD-wide mandate, right? Why shouldn’t we be concerned about our brothers and sisters in arms? What’s driving their increase in suicide rates?
Recommend you take a look at the suicide rate among Vietnam vets.t thinks suicide is a generational problem stemming from millenial and gen z fragile egos, even though the suicide rate is 50% lower than it was in the 1930s.
I was speaking from an active duty standpoint. Veteran suicides are another animal and is interwoven with veteran homelessness.Recommend you take a look at the suicide rate among Vietnam vets.
The point is, it's not as much a "generational problem" as you might think.I was speaking from an active duty standpoint. Veteran suicides are another animal and is interwoven with veteran homelessness.
Remember, all these active duty folks are looking at this through their lens and offering their expertise on a thread in the Naval Reserves forum. So they have no idea how policy is going to be applied to our world.
@SteveHolt!!! which Chaps does a sailor meet with? The one assigned to his NOSC, his cross-assigned NOSC, the active duty one in his area, or the one that handles the unit he supports on AT?