Navy sued again over sonar...

[zippy]

Navy sued for sonar blasting whales

Thursday, October 20, 2005; Posted: 10:40 a.m. EDT (14:40 GMT)


SANTA MONICA, California (AP) -- Environmentalists sued the Navy on Wednesday, claiming that a widely used form of sonar for detecting enemy submarines disturbs and sometimes kills whales and dolphins.

The sonar "is capable of flooding thousands of square miles of ocean with dangerous levels of noise pollution," according to the lawsuit filed in federal court in Los Angeles.

The Navy settled a similar lawsuit two years ago by agreeing to limit the peacetime use of experimental low-frequency sonar.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/10/20/sonar.whales.ap/index.html

 

[gregsivers]

So how in the fvck are the supposed to know how to use the sonar in war if they can't use it in training? I thought thats what training was for, but I suppose environmentalists know more than experts. And I'm sure that whales didn't beach themselves before the Navy began using sonar, no way.

 

[pennst8]

"[California] I'm here to check your [State] for parasites ... apparently, you have hippies." -Cartman

This could be the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard of. If the Navy is going to be sued for using sonar because it might bother the whales, they should just start shooting the things on sight. Dead whales don't beach themselves, now do they?

 

[Herc_Dude]

"[California] I'm here to check your [State] for parasites ... apparently, you have hippies." -Cartman

This could be the STUPIDEST thing I've ever heard of. If the Navy is going to be sued for using sonar because it might bother the whales, they should just start shooting the things on sight. Dead whales don't beach themselves, now do they?

More advancing of the socialist/liberal agenda. Each time they can attack an institution that makes up a part of the backbone of our country, they will. Attacking the military, the whole 'no drilling for oil' thing in Alaska is an attack at our capitalist economy which depends greatly on oil (even as simply as people driving to work) and other basic things that most of us love that make the United States great - PETA tries to attack those of us who might eat a steak every now and then, they want you to drive little battery-mobiles instead of the vehicle of YOUR choice that YOU pay for. Alright, rant over ... :icon_rage

 

[Gatordev]

Um, you know there's truth to this article. It's been pretty well documented that active sonar plays havoc w/ whales and dolphins. I think the jury is still out on whether it's "thousands of square miles" (I seriously doubt it), but it is an issue.

Jingoism aside, we should still be able to practice ASW, but it is an issue.

 

[Richthofen]

Darn hippies/socialists/liberals...
They don't appreciate anything military provide them.
Wish one day they get shipped out to N.Korea, enjoy their life as commies, find out about thier anti tank suicide bomb dog squad, make complains like they do in here, and find out what'd happen:icon_rage

 

[Herc_Dude]

Um, you know there's truth to this article. It's been pretty well documented that active sonar plays havoc w/ whales and dolphins. I think the jury is still out on whether it's "thousands of square miles" (I seriously doubt it), but it is an issue.

Jingoism aside, we should still be able to practice ASW, but it is an issue.

I agree its an issue. I don't think there should be any blind ignorace and just go around blowing away whales, but there has to be some middle gound found. I love animals and consider myself to be a conservative environmentalist (too bad the hippies ruined the word environmentalist) and enjoy nature and the animals all around. But the training is necessary. That the problem, the 'other side' doesn't seem to want to compromise - they want to advance their political agenda without any regard for the necessity of military training. Guarentee that if 50 (or 5) years from now we have Chineese subs off the Cali coast, they will be singing a different tune.

 

[sirenia]

Ditto what gatordev stated. The Navy has acknowledged that there is a possible connection between sonar and the beaching of marine mammals. And naval researchers are currently conducting studies to see the extent of this possible damage caused by sonar. I think with enough research, there may be a way to have strong sonar and still protect the wildlife.

 

[michaels601]

this was on "Smallville" last night. swear to God.

 

[Brett327]

Hey, I'm all for being nice to the big critters and stuff, but let's not lost our perspective. We, as a society, have gone WAY out of our way to protect these creatures to the detriment of mankind. How about a little grattitude from these alledgedly "smart" marine mamals. If they're going to insist on killing themselves, couldn't they have the decency to do it in a less visible way? Whatever happened to throwing yourself in front of a speeding cruise ship? Seriously, what have these animals done for US lately? I say, pump up the volume on all our LF active sonar gear until the oceans boil.

I hate hippies,

Brett

 

[Fly Navy]

If it means sacrificing our warfighting capability to protect them.... fvck em. Wars are inherently bad for the environment, we shouldn't put a dent in our submarine force because of it.

 

[hourocket]

I love how the say we should " to turn on sonar systems gradually so that the animals have time to flee." On my submarine we didnt have a dimmer switch to the active sonar gradually on, it was just one button and ping, there it went. I guess the circus isnt in town so they need to do something to pass the time.

 

[Gatordev]

Yeah, I'm not saying we should stop training, just putting some perspective out there. As for buoys, well, you can gradually turn them on in that you have to ping the sludge out of them, but I don't think that's what they meant.

The other side to this whole argument is how much the Navy has done. There are a slew of ROE for dealing w/ marine mammals while training, which I guess they choose not to acknowledge.

 

[gaijin6423]

this was on "Smallville" last night. swear to God.

WTF were you doing watching smallville???

 

[eddie]

Yeah, I'm not saying we should stop training, just putting some perspective out there. As for buoys, well, you can gradually turn them on in that you have to ping the sludge out of them, but I don't think that's what they meant.

The other side to this whole argument is how much the Navy has done. There are a slew of ROE for dealing w/ marine mammals while training, which I guess they choose not to acknowledge.

I read an article about this years ago... said something about medium range bandwidth being what made the whales nuts. What would that mean?