No kidding! Even workin’ the deck was a pain. I can only imagine trying to get aboard.
Steve
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Navy vs Air Force
- Thread starter contrail_dash
- Start date
No kidding! Even workin’ the deck was a pain. I can only imagine trying to get aboard.
Steve
I know the ship does night IFR, but night 0/0? We never did on the TR during the time I was on her.
Got a few "Paddles Contact" landings (maybe 5 or so/out of 200) and that is worse than any CAT III that I have done... The thing is the Autopilot is good and there are many criteria (especially inside the decision making regime) that makes me more comfortable than some dude(s) saying he can see me and to continue.. I had a shattered/spiderwebbed windscreen and had to do "paddles contact".. Flew the shit out the the needles and just listened and responded.. Had to shut down in the LA...
As a quick side note: Nothing like being put into tension and not being able to see the bow than hearing "99 scrub the launch" after you are airborne and of course, then checking in with departure and getting the "7XX can you see if you can find a hole to tank.." Ya, thanks!
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
It wasn't intentional. 20 minutes or so prior to Charlie the wx was fine. Then a sandstorm came through and the whole gulf went 0/0. Suddenly we were blue water ops. There was nothing left to do.
12 Mar 2003. OK AFUAW (I always thought that was funny)
So this all happened 10 minutes after launch then?
Seriously, I'm curious how that works in theatre. In the confines of OPSEC, how long does it take you to get back to the boat in the Gulf and does it require multiple tanks? The geography is relatively close but that obviously doesn't mean that Mom is close to the action. Just curious.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Ba-dum......ching!
Actually we were dumping fuel when the wx hit.
In this case (OSW/OSF sortie) we were filling 2 1+00 vuls in southern Iraq, so we had plenty of fuel (double bubble, TPOD and GBU-16 or 2 GBU-12). The ATO will tell you if you're fragged for gas, but during this period (and later in OIF1) the Harriers were last for gas. We very rarely had tankers in theater since the CV guys were coming further and weren't allowed to land where we did.
We were pit turning out of Kuwait, and later on out of forward operating bases in Iraq (An Numinayah and some others). In truth, the CV guys could have landed in most of the places we did, but they didn't because there was no arresting gear available.
Speaking from a strictly LHA/D standpoint, there are NO TANKERS available for recovery/divert. Zero. None.
That means that when we are bringing back ordnance, or when it's hot/humid/low pressure, we can be only 30-40 miles from our divert and still be basically blue water. It's not a fuel burn issue, or a "we don't have enough gas issue", but a matter of bringback. If I can only land with, say, 1200 pounds of gas due to performance, then if I subsequestly can't get aboard, I only have that much left to divert, even if I had to dump down to get there.
Fortunately, this rarely happens. We don't bolter, and aside from this instance, the weather rarely gets that bad that quickly. The decision to divert is normally made in marshall, but in this case, we were already dumping down to hover weight, and in any event, the entire gulf from Kuwait down to Bahrain went to shit all at once. There was no place to divert to, except maybe Iran.
From what I heard, the CV guys sucked dry all of the big wing tankers that night and diverted in the morning. It was an all around jump-through-your-ass-X.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Why don't you just point them to the book?
Beacause I don't get any royalties from it.
I sank all of my copyright money into TRA.
There you go - the voice of experience.
Gotcha, thanks.
Long time lurker, first time poster. Thought I'd chime in on this and offer insight from the perspective of someone who has now seen both sides of the fence. Spent 12 years in the MC flying AV-8s and am coming up on my first complete year in the AF now flying U-2s - young Harrier pups will know who I am as will Huggy since he hired me.
A few of the posts above do a good job of cutting through the bs, but there are plenty of stereotypes being perpetuated as well. My take on trying to differentiate between AF and Naval aviation is that there is no better and no worse - they are simply different entities.
The number one myth I would contest is that flying in the AF is more restrictive, that what you are allowed to do is spelled out in the regs and anything not explicitly addressed is prohibited. Yeah the AF has a lot of regs, but so far I have found flying in the AF to be no more and no less restrictive than flying in the MC. There were plenty of rules governing MC flying as well, the deviation from which would get you a chat with the old man. As a couple of other posts above noted, it's more a function of the personalities of the people leading you. I spent all my Harrier time on the east coast, which meant that the MAG and the wing were right across the street. It was not unheard of to get a call from the Group CO critiquing the division that just hit the break - - because he was sitting at the end of runway with binos watching. If you work for micromanagers that's how life is and the MC had their fair share.
The AF is no different. There are guys here who won't take a piss without telling the boss and there are guys who have the fortitude to act first and brief later.
Cultural comparisons are another matter entirely. I loved my time in the Corps and there are things about it I miss dearly but I am likewise truly enjoying what I am doing now. At the end of the day I'm flying some pretty cool hardware in the company of some great people in support of a worthwhile mission - it just doesn't get much better than that. In that sense there really isn't much difference between my time in the MC and my time in the AF. Take it for what it's worth...
A few of the posts above do a good job of cutting through the bs, but there are plenty of stereotypes being perpetuated as well. My take on trying to differentiate between AF and Naval aviation is that there is no better and no worse - they are simply different entities.
The number one myth I would contest is that flying in the AF is more restrictive, that what you are allowed to do is spelled out in the regs and anything not explicitly addressed is prohibited. Yeah the AF has a lot of regs, but so far I have found flying in the AF to be no more and no less restrictive than flying in the MC. There were plenty of rules governing MC flying as well, the deviation from which would get you a chat with the old man. As a couple of other posts above noted, it's more a function of the personalities of the people leading you. I spent all my Harrier time on the east coast, which meant that the MAG and the wing were right across the street. It was not unheard of to get a call from the Group CO critiquing the division that just hit the break - - because he was sitting at the end of runway with binos watching. If you work for micromanagers that's how life is and the MC had their fair share.
The AF is no different. There are guys here who won't take a piss without telling the boss and there are guys who have the fortitude to act first and brief later.
Cultural comparisons are another matter entirely. I loved my time in the Corps and there are things about it I miss dearly but I am likewise truly enjoying what I am doing now. At the end of the day I'm flying some pretty cool hardware in the company of some great people in support of a worthwhile mission - it just doesn't get much better than that. In that sense there really isn't much difference between my time in the MC and my time in the AF. Take it for what it's worth...
Clux4
Banned
Interesting,the Air Force will let you keep both wings.
http://www.944fw.afrc.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=8096
http://www.944fw.afrc.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?id=8096
Wink - I wasn't at Osh Kosh this year but Meat (former F-14 driver) was so that's probably who you saw. The balance in the squadron is actually nearing 50/50 lead to gold wings - we've got former Navy F14 & 18, P-3, 60 & 53 bubbas as well as Marine F18, AV-8 (obviously), AH-1, and 46. There's even an AF B-52 guy who did a Navy EA-6 exchange tour, so there's no shortage of shipmates rolling around the halls.
And Clux is right, we are authorized to wear both wings and I do. When I first transferred in I had to submit all of my Naval aviation records to an AF board who reviews them and then formally grants permission to wear the AF wings.
On a side note, U-2s were successfully flown off of carriers briefly in the 60s, so there are more ties in this community to the Naval tradition than may appear. But I digress...
And Clux is right, we are authorized to wear both wings and I do. When I first transferred in I had to submit all of my Naval aviation records to an AF board who reviews them and then formally grants permission to wear the AF wings.
On a side note, U-2s were successfully flown off of carriers briefly in the 60s, so there are more ties in this community to the Naval tradition than may appear. But I digress...