Need help! Legal issue....

[Crash2]

As a juvinile I had to serve probation for a few months for being caught up with the wrong people at the wrong time. They called a threat into the school I went to to get it evacuated which is a Category 3 offense by military standards. But I was never convicted of the crime itself because I just sat in the back seat of the car while they had their fun. I was just found guilty by association, because I was with them at the time the offense took place. Since I was never actually convicted of the Category 3 offense do I have to put it down as a Category 3 offense on my application or is there a lesser category for my involvement to fall into?

Say it was rape instead, If i never commited the rape but was with the person that did it, would I have to list me being there as a Category 1 offense (the worst there is) even though I never commited the rape or was involved with it in any way. I just dont want to be labeled as something I am not. Me and my recruiter are at a loss, we dont know what to do with the situation. I just dont want to have to get a waiver for a Cat 3 offense I never committed. Can I get my involvement reduced to a Cat 4 or 5 offense or am I just as guilty as the guy that commited the crime in the eyes of the military?

 

[jg5343]

what does the police report say?
Go with that, that is what they will see on a back ground check.

 

[Crash2]

Same stuff I told you, I was with them but not involved. I sat in the back seat. I was guilty by association. I cant get any reports or records they have all been put on restricted access. They will not give them out to me or my recruiter.

 

[zippy]

Did you get any sort of disposition sheet or other paperwork from your court visit??? If so, sort through it and see what it says.

 

[jg5343]

Obviously you were convicted of something, right? What was it? You are being very vague. Were you convicted of the same crime? What crime?

 

[mkoch]

Police reports with the names of juveniles are sometimes kept by the department with names removed, so the police would be unable to give them to you. You would most likely need to find the exact court office where any hearings were held (local, state, etc).

Since it's a juvenile record, they'll give you a hard time about getting to it, but if I'm not mistaken the Freedom of Information Act lets you inspect any records that they have on you, assuming it won't compromise an ongoing investigation or do some other serious harm. You'll at the very least have to fill out a mountain of paperwork insisting the records you are seeking are your own, probably in person, and that you are in fact who you claim to be. Sometimes clerks like to tell you that you can't have things even though they have no valid reason to say no.

 

[Brett327]

Little rant here:

How the fvck can you be involved in some kind of criminal legal action and not know if or what you were convicted of? I have seen this kind of stuff time and time again on this site and it really blows me away. One would figure that if you were being detained and/or prosecuted for a crime, it would be a pretty serious situation - one where you might want to pay attention, no? Another thing, what is with all the equivocation? I'm not picking a crash here, but WTF? You say you weren't convicted, yet you say you were found guilty by association - which is it? I know every case is different, but sometimes when I hear these stories where people have no idea about the important details of their own lives, I wonder if these are the people I want flying on my wing into harm's way.

Brett

 

[Crash2]

Im not being vague. The guy I was with was arrested and convicted of a false alarm (which was a class C misdomeanor I believe) in adult court. I went to juvinile court and was put on probation because I was in the car and didnt make an attempt to walk home away from the crime scene, even though I had nothing to do with the crime. I really dont know what I was officially convicted of, because the court will not disclose the case information or any of my personal information on the case. They say the documents were expunged or sealed after my probationary period was served, and no one not even myself can have access to the files. So Im guessing i was guilty to being an accessory to a false alarm.

 

[jg5343]

My advice is to write a memo stating exactly what happened and how you were punished. Tell them it was a juvenile case and the records were sealed. The only place I think it will make a difference is if it in not disclosed on your EPSQ. Just make sure its on that and attach the explanation. Then you are free of all nondiscloser rules.

BTW -- I 100% agree with Brett.

 

[snow85]

okay-- here's the deal.

1. you need to find out what you were arrested for, (arrest record), and what you were charged with. then you need a copy of the judgment, and/or release. guilt by association is a lesser offense, but you don't know for a fact if you were convicted of that, or anything else for that matter, so that's something that you need to find out ASAP. it doesn't matter if you spend three days at the county clerk's office. you need that information. bring your i.d., cash, and know the approximate date of the arrest-- you'll need that as your starting point.

2. you need to find out what they did with the docs.

a sealed document and an expunged document are two very different things.

sealed means that no one has access to it, except sometimes, if something happens and you end up back in the courtroom, OR it can show up on a background check. (see below)

expunged means, basically, that it 'goes away', is 'erased', whathaveyou. the court would be required to destroy the documents (with your name only-- specific to you alone), and notify any agencies to whom they sent copies of those docs. (police stations, etc.) the word 'expunged' goes in place of the offense. this works for all job/school applications everywhere except when applying for federal employment. reason why: see below.

you should know that your 'crimes'-- arrests and convictions-- never 'go away' completely. even if something is expunged, it will forever stay in the National Crime Information Center, as will a record of the expungement. the FBI, and the Navy, [NCIS], have access to it from there. they'll know what happened, or rather, what the report and documents say, and they'll also know that it was expunged.

because of that, you do need to claim it, as it will be found out. lying is a measure of character and integrity, and not one that is highly viewed.

as far as your application is concerned, you may actually have to provide the docs.... i don't remember, but definitely read the fine print.

i'm surprised that your recruiter hasn't contacted a local JAG Officer to help sort this out. that may be a good starting place.

 

[jg5343]

because of that, you do need to claim it, as it will be found out. lying is a measure of character and integrity, and not one that is highly viewed.

ASOLUTELY DO NOT TRY AND HIDE IT. I think Snow is right on. Good Luck.

 

[The Chief]

ASOLUTELY DO NOT TRY AND HIDE IT. I think Snow is right on. Good Luck.

Agreed. Brett correctly framed this issue. Honesty and integrity.

There are several types of security checks; In a national records check they simply check to see if anything on record (debts, judicial proceedings, judgement and etc). A background investigation involves the records check but also interviews with your references, employeers and etc. In an extended, full background investigation, the Navy has Chief's out there with noses like bloodhounds investigate your every move. They can and will find everything. They check your references, then get five more names from thoses references, and so on until they are satisfied they have the picture. If something does not feel right, they will get more names. ESBI's are usually involved when clearnaces involving SCI/T/K/O/B/A/O and several others, are at stake.

In this case, lets assume that there is no record, but in interviewing one of your employeers, he/she gives the name of a classmate. Classmate tells story of the incident. Gives name of other party involved. Investigator goes to other party involved in incident you related. He tells his story, lets say he tries to pen the whole thing on you as the instigator, but sez "he got off because of his old man" or what ever. The NIS writes this all up, send it to an adjudicator.

Adjudicator reveiws record and if he/she finds that you did not mention the incident you are at an immediate disadvantage. If you did tell all, even if the stories are different, you have the high ground.

Taking a bit farther, NIS decides to come talk to you about the incident. He suddenly shows up at your door, you did not have time to prepare. If you did include "your side" and told the truth, you will have no problems. If you shaded the truth, chances are you will not even remember what story you told on your SF 86.

Short story, come clean. It is in your best interest.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Little rant here:

How the fvck can you be involved in some kind of criminal legal action and not know if or what you were convicted of? I have seen this kind of stuff time and time again on this site and it really blows me away. One would figure that if you were being detained and/or prosecuted for a crime, it would be a pretty serious situation - one where you might want to pay attention, no? Another thing, what is with all the equivocation? I'm not picking a crash here, but WTF? You say you weren't convicted, yet you say you were found guilty by association - which is it? I know every case is different, but sometimes when I hear these stories where people have no idea about the important details of their own lives, I wonder if these are the people I want flying on my wing into harm's way.

Brett

Concur.

 

[Crash2]

Yes i am coming clean about everything on my record down to my earliest speeding ticket. I am not trying to hide anything, nor do i want to. I just need to find out what the charge against me was (officially) so that i can categorize it as a cat 3 or 4 offense by military standards. i have no means of access to my records. i went to the court house, they said info on the records can not be given out to anyone including myself, went to the DPS they said that they are not allowed to do it either. they are restricted from disclosing any court information.

This stuff happened over 9 years ago and I cant find anyway to find out what the "official offense" was I was placed on probation for. I was never arrested or even cited a ticket, just went to court for 5 minutes and was placed on probation for a few months because i never made an attempt to get out of the car and walk home. idk, what to do.

Brett and Steve dont give me such a hard time, I was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people. like i said this happend over 9 years ago and the preceedings lasted every bit of 5 minutes, im sorry if i cant remember the exact legal jargon used for what i was placed on probation for. The judge was very vague and used alot of big words i didnt understand at age 15. Ive been trying to find out, but cant, im at a loss.

 

[zippy]

Something about this doesn't really make sense...

Maybe ask your parent's/guardian, or whoever was there with you at the courthouse during the judgement against you. Perhaps go back to the courthouse/clerks office and try talking to a supervisor, and explain your situation- maybe they can tell you what to put. If you can't get any paperwork/help from them, try talking to a JAG and see what they say. Bottom line is that if there is a paper trail, chances are they will find it so you are better disclosing it as something. Even an incorrect categorization would be better then not reporting it.