I'm new to the forum and I need some feedback. When I started the college process, I knew I wanted to go into the military but was undecided between the army and the navy. I applied for both ROTC's 4yr scholarships. I did not receive a navy 4yr but was named a 3yr advanced designee for the army at a couple schools. Within the past year, I have become even more set in my belief that the navy is where I want to be so I turned down the 3yr army AD's. I am hoping that by busting my butt next year I will be able to pick up a 3yr through NROTC. Obviously, this is a huge risk but I wanted to go for my dream of being a naval officer. (I want to go into naval aviation but am not naive enough to think that this is a definite or even a good possibility so I have other interests in the navy.) A couple of days ago, one of the schools notified me that all of their 3yr's were being upgraded to 4yr's by cadet command and that I had a couple of weeks to decide. This school also offered me a small ROTC merit scholarship a while back, and I would not be able to attend this school without a ROTC scholarship due to the substantial out-of-state tuition. However, I have some academic scholarship money at another school that offers NROTC (tuition is still a good amount), but I would not like to go into debt in loans if I had to pay for more than a year. My major is aero engineering and both my major and NROTC are not offered at all in my state. I have a couple of concerns that have made me apprehensive; I heard that the navy cut about 30,000 sailors last year and already has a surplus of JO's. Is this a huge problem in the navy and is it something I should worry about? I also have heard that 3yrs are becoming increasingly difficult to get because of this. Anyone know how common 3yr's actually are? Any feedback would be welcome. (And sorry for the long post!)
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need NROTC advice
- Thread starter kris5505
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NROTC Scholarships are increasingly more difficult to come by. However, picking up a 3-year during/after your freshman year still happens quite a bit. Your engineering major is probably a bit of a boost when it comes to getting a scholarship, but getting the grades are always the key. You have to prove that you are academically successful. I would suggest calling the NROTC unit you wish to attend and talk to the Freshman adviser. They would give you the best possible advice. But believe me, if you want navy, then go NROTC.
Watching recent trends in my own NROTC unit, fewer freshmen are coming in with scholarships, but more sophmores are recieving them. its becoming more the norm now-a-days to "pick up" a scholarship while in college. also, there may be more incentive because of your major. technical major's are highly favored, and there's talk of giving bonuses to those MIDN who sign agreements that they will stay engineering. i agree with Nozeman, if you want navy, then buddy, GO NAVY. your LTs will work with you if you ask them.
Taildragger
API-bound!
Gotta agree with both Nozeman and BadBobJr. If the Navy is really where you want to be, then work hard and be persistent. The Navy is cutting back -- CNO wants to cut the Navy by 60,000 personnel by 2010, both officer and enlisted. Scholarships are getting fewer and more competitive, but don't let any of that discourage you. A whole lot of guys come in as college program midshipmen and pick up a scholarship their sophomore year. Having a tech major helps alot, and if you've got the grades to boot, then you should be able to pick up a scholarship no problem. Stay motivated and best of luck.
snizo
Supply Officer
A friend of mine helped me put things in a different perspective when I was trying to decide a similar problem. 20 years from now ... which would you regret more? Staying in the army and giving up the chance to fulfill your dream of being in the Navy? Or giving up your scholarship(s) for the chance of being in the Navy.
Have you looked at other scholarship options for the school that has NROTC? If you find out that you qualify for enough of a scholarship to make tuition be about the same as the army place - what do you have to lose, you know? A lot of schools (well - at least mine did) have entire departments of people whose sole job is to help students find free money.
Of course - grades are a good part of everything too, but you probably have some idea if you will do well or not because you know if you are smarter than the average guy and accel in math and science.
Good luck, man - tough decisions, but ones that will drastically affect your future and how happy you are in it.
Have you looked at other scholarship options for the school that has NROTC? If you find out that you qualify for enough of a scholarship to make tuition be about the same as the army place - what do you have to lose, you know? A lot of schools (well - at least mine did) have entire departments of people whose sole job is to help students find free money.
Of course - grades are a good part of everything too, but you probably have some idea if you will do well or not because you know if you are smarter than the average guy and accel in math and science.
Good luck, man - tough decisions, but ones that will drastically affect your future and how happy you are in it.
Yea ... I learned that exact same thing on my sub cruise, too...
Super18Ordie
F/A-18 Ordnanceman
yes it does happen, well I know when my friend graduated from USNA in 2002, there were I think 45 mids that were commisioned as 2nd LT in the Air Force and I think 35 that were commisioned as 2nd LT in Army. Wether or not this is still done I dont know
redmidgrl said:
Date: 23-Jan-02
On Wednesday, 23-Jan-02, the 979 members of the
Class of 2002 received their service assignments.
The breakdown is as follows:
Surface Warfare (Conventional) 237
Surface Warfare (Nuclear) 44
Submarine Warfare 127
Navy Pilot 257
Naval Flight Officer 88
Special Warfare (Navy SEALs) 16
Special Operations 11
USMC Ground 105
USMC Pilot 54
USMC Naval Flight Officer 5
Aviation Maintenance Duty Officer 1
Civil Engineer Corps 5
Cryptology 6
Intelligence 3
Supply Corps 8
Medical Corps 10
Air Force 2
URL: http://www.usna.edu/NHS/news.htm
Thanks to everyone who replied. Redmidgirl- I have heard of this happening at the academy's but never at ROTC; from what I understand it wouldn't be easy to do if it is even possible (especially with a 4yr scholarship) although I could be wrong. Snizo- Both the schools I am looking at have NROTC but the one where I have my army scholarship at is too expensive (Purdue) even for a year and they don't give out many scholarships outside of ROTC. I actually have some scholarship money at a different school with NROTC that I was planning on attending if I turned the 4yr down, although it will still be a good amount of tuition. Your perspective is insightful though- it's something to think about.
So when you all say that the 3yr's are given out quite a bit can you clarify what you mean- as in half the mids not on scholarship receive them? do you have some estimate that could put that in perspective for me? Also I have heard about the PNS leadership scholarship- what makes someone competitive to receive this? (if anyone can answer that)
So when you all say that the 3yr's are given out quite a bit can you clarify what you mean- as in half the mids not on scholarship receive them? do you have some estimate that could put that in perspective for me? Also I have heard about the PNS leadership scholarship- what makes someone competitive to receive this? (if anyone can answer that)
Super18Ordie
F/A-18 Ordnanceman
The Chief said:
Hey thanks for correcting me Chief, I was way off, probaly got confused with something else I had been reading.
kris5505 said:
Saying that half of the freshman would recieve scholarships is very innacurate. It is not really based on just giving a group of scholarships to a class just to fulfill number requirements, they are given on merity. Good grades, strong aptitude and good PT will earn you a scholarship. I couldn't give you a goal GPA to get or anything, do well, bottom line. If your a liberal arts major, you need to be above the 3.0 mark (probably way above), engineers should shoot for that too. The PNS scholarship is usually for the top dog of the freshman class that DOESN'T already have a scholarship. It is tough to depend on obviously. The best advice is to go to your school, bust your ass on grades and don't get in trouble (drinking!).
About 3 weeks ago there was an article in Navy Times outling the Navy's stance that no NROTC graduates will be cross-commissioning. If I remember correctly, AFROTC offered 40-some slots to cadets to go green (only 5 bit off on it). Apparently some of the powers that be in the Army were under the impression that NROTC had too many mids and investigated the possibility of cross commissioning, met with a red hot negative.
Back at the beginning of this thread, kris5505 was pondering his desire to be a Naval Officer in the context of scholarship options, scenarios and opportunities. His ostensible dilemma pushed me to voice an opinion about NROTC scholarships which I have been considering for some time. That opinion is that NROTC scholarships are just not enough.
Neither kris5505 nor any current or prospective NROTC Mid should be in a situation whereby getting from high school to commission is a mostly pay-as-you-go affair. Put another way, an NROTC scholarship should be all tuition and fees without an upper limit for any academic year (maybe limit the number of years to 4 but offer a 5th year for colleges that don't grant academic credit for naval science courses or some science/tech/engineering majors that don't have time to fit in naval science courses inside four academic years); plus a stipend that is more like 25 - 35% of an Ensign's base pay during the academic year; plus room & board for the same number of academic years as the scholarship. This sort of package for a typical 9 month academic year plus 8 weeks of summer cruise (like it used to me up until the post Vietnam era) would be the sort of economic support the Navy ought to offer an NROTC Midn that is transitioning from their high school years to commissioning.
The NROTC Scholarship program, I believe, was envisioned by the Holloway Board (if I've got my history correct) to be designed as an augment to the USNA as a source of Regular Officers (now all are commissioned USN). There was a huge advantage to this concept. The Navy got a source of Regular Officers and they did not have to purchase and operate a four year college. Look at the NROTC summer cruise program from some decades ago, it was an awful lot like that for USNA Midn (minus Plebe Summer; CORTRAMID was Second Class Cruise not Third Class Cruise like today).
Contrast to the USNA Midn, paid 50% of an Ensign's base-pay year round. That's fair. No criticism implied. But what it represents is an economic commitment by the Navy to provide sustainment for that Midn who typically enters after high school and finishes four years later a commissioned officer. The Navy, already benefitting from not having to own and operate another college, should enhance the economic support provided by the NROTC Program to the NROTC Mids who typically enter after high school on their way to commissioning so they can focus almost exclusively on their development as Naval Officers and leaders.
The remarks about picking up a scholarship after the freshman year, what a rip. Is the Navy hedging their bets by gradually shifting scholarships to 3/C Midn because they want to evaluate them after one academic year of college work? If the Navy can do anything exceptionally well, it is evaluate talent. They have the people and the know-how to assess the fitness of high school graduates to enter a commissioning program. They absolutely do not have to wait for them to present one year of college academic work before making the scholarship commitment.
Not to put too fine a point on this but NROTC Midn are manifestly honorable Americans. Their dedication and commitment to their country is certainly more valuable than that of the football player on full scholarship at the same college or university. That football player is indeed entertaining and earns the college large bucks and is deserving. But so is the NROTC Midn deserving of the same sort of scholarship because they will serve their country honorably; will sail or fly in danger as required.
But the Navy is getting an overwhelming bargain with the current NROTC Program. The meagre (by today's standards) scholarship - capped tuition and fees, small stipend, and 4 - 6 week summer cruises - compels the NROTC Midn to sometimes seek other income during the school year (to some extent) and certainly after that all-too-brief summer cruise. That is just not right for a program that portrays itself as preparing Naval Officers. The NROTC Program should have enough economic sustainment so the NROTC Midn can focus all their energies on the requirements of the Program. They can't be funded as if they are on active-duty. I would not advocate that. But I would suggest that the economic sustainment ought to reflect the same commitment from the Navy as is being manifested by the NROTC Midn, committed to honorable service.
This rant has gone on long enough. The Navy gets a tremendous bargain - top notch NROTC Midn, dedicated to service, at a bargain basement cost. The Navy needs to consider upping its commitment to the NROTC Midn.
Neither kris5505 nor any current or prospective NROTC Mid should be in a situation whereby getting from high school to commission is a mostly pay-as-you-go affair. Put another way, an NROTC scholarship should be all tuition and fees without an upper limit for any academic year (maybe limit the number of years to 4 but offer a 5th year for colleges that don't grant academic credit for naval science courses or some science/tech/engineering majors that don't have time to fit in naval science courses inside four academic years); plus a stipend that is more like 25 - 35% of an Ensign's base pay during the academic year; plus room & board for the same number of academic years as the scholarship. This sort of package for a typical 9 month academic year plus 8 weeks of summer cruise (like it used to me up until the post Vietnam era) would be the sort of economic support the Navy ought to offer an NROTC Midn that is transitioning from their high school years to commissioning.
The NROTC Scholarship program, I believe, was envisioned by the Holloway Board (if I've got my history correct) to be designed as an augment to the USNA as a source of Regular Officers (now all are commissioned USN). There was a huge advantage to this concept. The Navy got a source of Regular Officers and they did not have to purchase and operate a four year college. Look at the NROTC summer cruise program from some decades ago, it was an awful lot like that for USNA Midn (minus Plebe Summer; CORTRAMID was Second Class Cruise not Third Class Cruise like today).
Contrast to the USNA Midn, paid 50% of an Ensign's base-pay year round. That's fair. No criticism implied. But what it represents is an economic commitment by the Navy to provide sustainment for that Midn who typically enters after high school and finishes four years later a commissioned officer. The Navy, already benefitting from not having to own and operate another college, should enhance the economic support provided by the NROTC Program to the NROTC Mids who typically enter after high school on their way to commissioning so they can focus almost exclusively on their development as Naval Officers and leaders.
The remarks about picking up a scholarship after the freshman year, what a rip. Is the Navy hedging their bets by gradually shifting scholarships to 3/C Midn because they want to evaluate them after one academic year of college work? If the Navy can do anything exceptionally well, it is evaluate talent. They have the people and the know-how to assess the fitness of high school graduates to enter a commissioning program. They absolutely do not have to wait for them to present one year of college academic work before making the scholarship commitment.
Not to put too fine a point on this but NROTC Midn are manifestly honorable Americans. Their dedication and commitment to their country is certainly more valuable than that of the football player on full scholarship at the same college or university. That football player is indeed entertaining and earns the college large bucks and is deserving. But so is the NROTC Midn deserving of the same sort of scholarship because they will serve their country honorably; will sail or fly in danger as required.
But the Navy is getting an overwhelming bargain with the current NROTC Program. The meagre (by today's standards) scholarship - capped tuition and fees, small stipend, and 4 - 6 week summer cruises - compels the NROTC Midn to sometimes seek other income during the school year (to some extent) and certainly after that all-too-brief summer cruise. That is just not right for a program that portrays itself as preparing Naval Officers. The NROTC Program should have enough economic sustainment so the NROTC Midn can focus all their energies on the requirements of the Program. They can't be funded as if they are on active-duty. I would not advocate that. But I would suggest that the economic sustainment ought to reflect the same commitment from the Navy as is being manifested by the NROTC Midn, committed to honorable service.
This rant has gone on long enough. The Navy gets a tremendous bargain - top notch NROTC Midn, dedicated to service, at a bargain basement cost. The Navy needs to consider upping its commitment to the NROTC Midn.
Nice comments USN. I have to admit, it would be nice to get some more side cash while in the NROTC program. I agree that we probably shouldn't get paid the same as USNA mids, but we have MANY expenses that they dont have i.e. rent. Many of my peers have to use their stipend money for their rent and living expenses, then work a part time job in addition to NROTC committments. We signed a contract that bound us to the Navy just like USNA mid, maybe we should get more monetary benefits. However, since i joined NROTC (3 yrs ago) money has gotten better. Our semester book stipends have increased from 250 my freshman year to 350. We take what we can get!
....I love being called a bargain!
....I love being called a bargain!
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