New Blackhawk

[bert]

I have talked to to the engineers and had the chance to crawl on the first FBW -101. When you consider the control forces you have to overcome, the weight of the actuators becomes a problem (along with CG, etc.) - especially if you are attempting a true electro-mechanical system without hydraulics. [Note that there is a difference between eliminating every control rod/actuator/bellcrank, etc up to the one actually moving the swashplate or trying a less ambitious solution.] Electrical load becomes a problem at that point as well. I don't know if SAC is trying to go that route but it is not a simple problem.

FADEC, on the other hand, is much further along and should have been bought long since by the Navy.

 

[Fly Navy]

Welcome to 20 years ago...

Surprised it took this long for them to do it.

 

[The Chief]

Welcome ...

/Threadjack

Welcome back Fly. Good to see you back. Unrelated to anything, how is house hunting going? Remember bout a year ago gave some advice:

_______________-

... I guess I missed Fly's question. I thought his decision was whether to buy now or when he got back from his "cruise". I read into the question that his departure was soon, and that the house would be vacant for the 8 months while on "cruise".

.....I also was addressing the real estate market in/around Hanford, California area, which I have studied in some detail. My observation is that prices have declined somewhat, while the asking price decline has not been precipitous, the actual selling price has declined remarkably and I firmly believe that more retrenchment in the Hanford market area will occur in the next year. And that advice is free!

/End threadjack.

 

[bobbybrock]

I'm not sure if this is a Navy program. I know the Army is looking at this for the next gen M model. I have an old buddy who is the PM for the program and could see if it is a joint Army/Navy effort.
The whole idea of no mech. linkage is a little scary. But then again it is redundant.

 

[bert]

I'm not sure if this is a Navy program. I know the Army is looking at this for the next gen M model. I have an old buddy who is the PM for the program and could see if it is a joint Army/Navy effort.
The whole idea of no mech. linkage is a little scary. But then again it is redundant.

There may be long range plans for jumping on later as in the AVC mod, but there is no money programmed at the moment and I wouldn't expect there to be any time soon.

Even if the Army works out all the kinks, the Navy will still need to have the $$ available for DT, etc. so it won't be a gimme.

[AVC = the active vibration kit - HSM-71 won't see it but the later R's will from 166530 (I don't recall where it fits in for the Sierra's).]

 

[squorch2]

Will AVC solve the cracks in the Sierras that go to the boat? Cause, damn... it just keeps on keepin on.

As for active SPY/SPS's, I've had my share - nothing that kicked off AFCS, but more than a few that tripped the TGB chip detector.

 

[MasterBates]

The 60S is not that old.. IIRC, it was a problem in the 60B/F before they added shielding, and cropped up later as the shielding got old/dmaged.

 

[bert]

Will AVC solve the cracks in the Sierras that go to the boat? Cause, damn... it just keeps on keepin on.

Nope - different issue. (There are people who argue that it will help, but.... no). Same with the R's cracks. What it will do is make the vibe portion of the FCF much easier.

 

[Gatordev]

You mean I won't have to d e l i c a t e l y hold the aircraft at ludicrous speed while trying not to touch the collective but also try not to fly into the water...all while holding altitude? P-shaw, where's the fun in that?

 

[MasterBates]

140's and Vh can always be fun when you barely have FCF Wx

 

[Pags]

Will AVC solve the cracks in the Sierras that go to the boat? Cause, damn... it just keeps on keepin on.

Cracks have not been found to be caused by the boat anymore than anything else. They suspect it's the ground-air-ground cycle (landing)...and rapid unloading of the airframe from external loads. Basically, anything that rapidly transfers where stress is in the airframe.

 

[bobbybrock]

Gatordev,
Do Navy 60s have a coupled auto-pilot like the CG's Jayhawaks that will fly the a/c to a destination and terminate a 50ft hover?
The M model 60's coming on line with the Army will have a three axis auto-pilot.
Not sure if we will see it in the guard anytime soon but our state (CA) is proposing we get some. The extra power would be nice above 10,000 msl.

 

[MasterBates]

I can only speak for the Bravo & Foxtrots that I have flown, but the AFCS could fly from a forward speed/level flight to a doppler hover at a selected altitude from 35-200' and pretty much any groundspeed from 0 to NATOPS limits via Longitudinal/Lateral speed knobs on the AFCS control panel.

It will "auto depart" to 500' 100kts by pushing a button.

I believe the F's have a cable angle thingy for the dipper, but I never used that function.

But the 60B did not have a "plug in lat long, and it goes there" feature.

We did have a SAR pattern that would set you up to come in damn close to whatever you marked on top of, but that has been purged from my brain to make room for fixed wing CV pattern knowledges.

 

[Gatordev]

Gatordev,
Do Navy 60s have a coupled auto-pilot like the CG's Jayhawaks that will fly the a/c to a destination and terminate a 50ft hover?
The M model 60's coming on line with the Army will have a three axis auto-pilot.
Not sure if we will see it in the guard anytime soon but our state (CA) is proposing we get some. The extra power would be nice above 10,000 msl.

Not sure about the Sierra, but the Bravo (and my understanding is the same for the Foxtrot) can fly straight and level w/ A/S and ALT hold and w/ a push of a button, fly a coupled approach to a hover, hands off. Not as good as the -65, which can fly patterns, but better than what I witnessed in your guys' Lima (right?) sim over at Wheeler.

EDIT: MB beat me to it.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Cracks have not been found to be caused by the boat anymore than anything else. They suspect it's the ground-air-ground cycle (landing)...and rapid unloading of the airframe from external loads. Basically, anything that rapidly transfers where stress is in the airframe.

A former -46 driver here at Whiting told me that cracks are forming on the Sierra since the oldschool guys are trying to fly the Sierra like they flew the Phrog.