GreenLantern330
Active Member
This just brings back memories.
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New Russian Submarine
- Thread starter SkywardET
- Start date
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I respectfully disagree.
Sure, they could say the goal was to make a cheaper version of the VA, but after R&D costs and the like, the VA is shaping up to be more expensive than just building more Seawolves. As of the end of FY 2009, the VA and Seawolf class have equal build costs. But EB wasn't going to share their baby with NG, and Congress wants to keep around the capability to pump out 2 subs a year. The VA class has gone through many design changes to bring the build cost to under $2 billion, and they might meet that goal by 2012. The kicker is that many of these same changes could have been applied to the Seawolf class, particularly since it would have come in at $2.8 billion/each as-is.
So the company line is that we wanted a cheaper boat that could perform versatile ops. The reality is that the Seawolves could perform multi-mission ops just fine, and the R&D required to create a new class of submarines was not going to save anyone any money. But it will keep Northrup Grunmann in the Sub building business.
^ Disagree all you want. I was in the Navy then and know what was going on. Just because the VA class now costs a lot more than anticipated, doesn't mean that it was always supposed to be. The Navy fought hard to keep the Seawolf. The President said it was too expensive. Congress agreed.
Originally, the Navy want 29 Seawolves and than necked it down to 7 or 8 as the costs rose and there were development and construction problems. 7 or 8 were deemed needed to maintain SSN levels/capabilities while the Centurion/NSSN was developed. Centurion/NSSN became the Virgina class. The VA class was supposed to be a cheaper compromise that was more capable than LA, less capable than Seawolf, but better than anything the Russians could come up with. It was purely a money issue. Pres. Bush still thought this was too expensive and wanted to stop after SSN-21 but eventually agreed to SSN-22. Congress and Pres. Clinton decided on SSN-23 as the last Seawolf.
There was an issue about the proposed procurement rate and it's effects on our sub building capabilities. The Navy said we needed to build 2 subs per year to maintain our building capabilities/expertise and Seawolf was going to be procured at a rate of 1.5 per year. There was was also talk of keeping 2 ship yards capable of building subs but that took a back seat to maintaining the capability (expertise in terms of yard workers, etc.). Further, if the Navy had wanted someone besides EB to build Seawolves, someone besides EB would have. Just look at the VAs, both General Dynamics and Northrop Grumman are building them. The Navy owns the design, not the shipyard.
Originally, the Navy want 29 Seawolves and than necked it down to 7 or 8 as the costs rose and there were development and construction problems. 7 or 8 were deemed needed to maintain SSN levels/capabilities while the Centurion/NSSN was developed. Centurion/NSSN became the Virgina class. The VA class was supposed to be a cheaper compromise that was more capable than LA, less capable than Seawolf, but better than anything the Russians could come up with. It was purely a money issue. Pres. Bush still thought this was too expensive and wanted to stop after SSN-21 but eventually agreed to SSN-22. Congress and Pres. Clinton decided on SSN-23 as the last Seawolf.
There was an issue about the proposed procurement rate and it's effects on our sub building capabilities. The Navy said we needed to build 2 subs per year to maintain our building capabilities/expertise and Seawolf was going to be procured at a rate of 1.5 per year. There was was also talk of keeping 2 ship yards capable of building subs but that took a back seat to maintaining the capability (expertise in terms of yard workers, etc.). Further, if the Navy had wanted someone besides EB to build Seawolves, someone besides EB would have. Just look at the VAs, both General Dynamics and Northrop Grumman are building them. The Navy owns the design, not the shipyard.
The "Seawolf class" attack submarine (SSN) was the intended successor to the "Los Angeles" class, ordered at the end of the Cold War in 1989. At one time, an intended fleet of 29 submarines was to be built over a ten-year period, later reduced to twelve. The end of the Cold War and budget constraints led to the fleet being canceled at three boats in 1995, and led to the design of the smaller "Virginia" class.
The end of the Cold War and budget constraints led to the cancellation in 1995 of any further additions to the fleet, leaving the Seawolf class limited to just three boats. This, in turn, led to the design of the smaller Virginia class.
Because of the high cost of the SEAWOLF-class ($3.5 billion for SSN-21), as well as the end of the Cold War, the Defense Department proposed building a lower-cost follow-on class of SSNs, the New Attack Submarine (NSSN) -named the VIRGINIA-class in 1998 by former Secretary of the Navy John H. Dalton, making JIMMY CARTER the last of the SEAWOLF-class.
Originally 29 were planned for production, but with the end of the Cold War, the cost was judged to be prohibitively high and only 3 were built in favor of the smaller Virginia class submarines, which were expected to be about 10% cheaper. (Yeah I know, it's Wikipedia...)
The end of the Cold War and budget constraints led to the cancellation in 1995 of any further additions to the fleet, leaving the Seawolf class limited to just three boats. This, in turn, led to the design of the smaller Virginia class.
Because of the high cost of the SEAWOLF-class ($3.5 billion for SSN-21), as well as the end of the Cold War, the Defense Department proposed building a lower-cost follow-on class of SSNs, the New Attack Submarine (NSSN) -named the VIRGINIA-class in 1998 by former Secretary of the Navy John H. Dalton, making JIMMY CARTER the last of the SEAWOLF-class.
Originally 29 were planned for production, but with the end of the Cold War, the cost was judged to be prohibitively high and only 3 were built in favor of the smaller Virginia class submarines, which were expected to be about 10% cheaper. (Yeah I know, it's Wikipedia...)
Spekkio, just look at the fact that F-22s were cut to 183 birds because of costs only to watch F-35 costs climb by the minute. Is the Seawolf/Virginia scenario HAL put out really so hard to believe?
BTW, the original video reminded me how hot I find women bilingual in English and Russian. Brings out the Cold Warrior in me...
God, you have no idea...