NFO flight time

[scoober78]

Hence the reason it is called 'Screw' time by the pilots when they log it.

Or better yet...why we don't.

 

[ea6bflyr]

Or better yet...why we don't.

We had a PILOT take a Prowler back seat for the fly-off and screwing over an ECMO.....He got and deserved all of his Special Crew Time.

-ea6bflyr

 

[Casual]

To elaborate a bit: Student NFO's (SNFO) get eight FAM flights with hands on the controls. The SNFO's get fly the aircraft to include takeoffs and landings. Once those eight flights are over, you are delegated to the back to NAVIGATE.

You actually only get 5 flights at the controls, to include the Contact check ride. The 6th Contact flight is a night contact where you're in the back seat.

 

[ea6bflyr]

You actually only get 5 flights at the controls, to include the Contact check ride. The 6th Contact flight is a night contact where you're in the back seat.

I guess the program has changed a bit since switching to MNTS. Thanks for the clarification.

-ea6bflyr

 

[phrogpilot73]

All time logged in primary is Special Crew Time (SCT) vice First Pilot Time.

Which I find interesting, is it only because SNFO's aren't allowed to log pilot time at all?

However, if you're the sole manipulator of the controls, and since you're the keeper/verifier of your civilian logbook - I would assume that you could log those 5 flights or what not as PIC/Under Instruction...

 

[MIDNJAC]

However, if you're the sole manipulator of the controls, and since you're the keeper/verifier of your civilian logbook - I would assume that you could log those 5 flights or what not as PIC/Under Instruction...

The only question I have about this (and I may just be misunderstanding the regs here) is whether or not you can log PIC in an aircraft like the T-6 which at the very least is complex/high performance, when you don't have those endorsements in your logbook? Otherwise, it would seem reasonable that you could log it, whether or not it matters is of course another issue. I logged my tiny bit of time at the controls from my middie cruises in the Weenie and the Rhino in my civvie logbook, if only for sentimental purposes.......obviously if I walked back out onto civilian street tomorrow I wouldn't claim any of that time (or probably even my time so far in primary) if I were job hunting.

 

[picklesuit]

The only question I have about this (and I may just be misunderstanding the regs here) is whether or not you can log PIC in an aircraft like the T-6 which at the very least is complex/high performance, when you don't have those endorsements in your logbook? Otherwise, it would seem reasonable that you could log it, whether or not it matters is of course another issue. I logged my tiny bit of time at the controls from my middie cruises in the Weenie and the Rhino in my civvie logbook, if only for sentimental purposes.......obviously if I walked back out onto civilian street tomorrow I wouldn't claim any of that time (or probably even my time so far in primary) if I were job hunting.

You get PIC when you solo...

 

[Casual]

The only question I have about this (and I may just be misunderstanding the regs here) is whether or not you can log PIC in an aircraft like the T-6 which at the very least is complex/high performance, when you don't have those endorsements in your logbook?

No way can you log your time "at the controls" in the T-6 as PIC time. Just like the studs in the T-34 can't log their first flights as PIC time.

 

[BACONATOR]

No way can you log your time "at the controls" in the T-6 as PIC time. Just like the studs in the T-34 can't log their first flights as PIC time.

The ONLY flights we log as PIC in primary is on our solo flights, so only a couple hours out of the 100 or so we log.

The rest is either FP (First pilot: at the controls, obviously if we are PIC too) or CP (Copilot: IP is at the controls)

 

[Recovering LSO]

We had a PILOT take a Prowler back seat for the fly-off and screwing over an ECMO.....He got and deserved all of his Special Crew Time.

-ea6bflyr

Was he senior to the guy who he bumped? After six months of getting his crew back aboard for rats, the least one could do is hook the guy up with a ride home. Especially if he was senior. Gonna have a senior JO pilot walk off while a young ECMO walks off and potentially gets home sooner? Seniority should be blind to designators.

 

[Pugs]

Was he senior to the guy who he bumped? After six months of getting his crew back aboard for rats, the least one could do is hook the guy up with a ride home. Especially if he was senior. Gonna have a senior JO pilot walk off while a young ECMO walks off and potentially gets home sooner? Seniority should be blind to designators.

After the junior ECMO spent six months doing the mission and hoping the pilot and paddles gets him back aboard? You don't want to ride in the back and do the mission don't ask for my seat on fly-off.

 

[phrogpilot73]

No way can you log your time "at the controls" in the T-6 as PIC time. Just like the studs in the T-34 can't log their first flights as PIC time.

Agreed. Since he's not appropriately rated, he's not supposed to log PIC. -1 for Reading Comprehension for me.

The ONLY flights we log as PIC in primary is on our solo flights, so only a couple hours out of the 100 or so we log.

The rest is either FP (First pilot: at the controls, obviously if we are PIC too) or CP (Copilot: IP is at the controls)

I don't think you can log Part 1 PIC on your solo (because you don't have a NATOPS check), but you can log Part 61 PIC. Also, anything first pilot time post solo could be logged as Part 61 PIC.

Pilot in command means the person who:
(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and
(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.

(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot--
(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under Sec. 61.87 of this part; and
(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating

 

[a-6intruder]

Was he senior to the guy who he bumped? After six months of getting his crew back aboard for rats, the least one could do is hook the guy up with a ride home. Especially if he was senior. Gonna have a senior JO pilot walk off while a young ECMO walks off and potentially gets home sooner? Seniority should be blind to designators.

Disagree. You can't play both sides of the fence. About the only thing worse would be the flight surgeon who is just barely in qual using a flyoff as an excuse to stay current.

 

[a-6intruder]

Back to the discussion about NFOs trying to log PIC time, or co-pilot, or whatever, I know several (i.e. more than 5) A-6 NFOs who had their private pilot's license and some how were able to rationalize all the right seat flying into co-pilot time such that they made a play for the regionals and then made it to the major airlines. They all said the key was no mil time counted until the date of private pilot license.

In the fleet squadron we all logged our right seat time as Special Crew Time, but for some reason all my instructor time in the RAG got logged as co-pilot time.

Does this still happen w/ any ECMO guys in the right seat?

 

[wink]

Back to the discussion about NFOs trying to log PIC time, or co-pilot, or whatever, I know several (i.e. more than 5) A-6 NFOs who had their private pilot's license and some how were able to rationalize all the right seat flying into co-pilot time such that they made a play for the regionals and then made it to the major airlines. They all said the key was no mil time counted until the date of private pilot license.

To log the time the aircraft has to require two crew members and you have to have conducted three take offs and landings within the previous 90 days (as I recall) and demonstrate a V-1 cut, engine failure on take off. I hardly think that was done by any BN from the right seat reaching across to the stick. Since the Intruder is multi engine it would also require a multi engine rating with at least a center line thrust restriction.

In the fleet squadron we all logged our right seat time as Special Crew Time, but for some reason all my instructor time in the RAG got logged as co-pilot time.

Does this still happen w/ any ECMO guys in the right seat?

All my War Hoover time was logged as SCT for back seat sorties and Copilot for front seat flights. The only reason for that was to differentiate between the experience gained in the different skill sets used in either position. This was particularly useful when on cruise and we wanted to track a guys front seat experience around the boat. It had nothing to do with NATOPS or FAA flight time logging.