NFO's instructing at Meridian/Kingsville

[jarhead]

Supposedly a "trial" has been signed off on ... could somebody in the know, i.e. in CNATRA, please explain the thought process behind this "rumor" that came out of a recent conference. Info came from a pretty good source.

No hate towards NFO's but I'm scratching my head on how this is going to work.

S/F

 

[nittany03]

There was an NFO on TRAWING 1 staff when I went through . . . he even had a patch made up with NFO wings instead of single anchor wings on the TRAWING 1 logo . . .

Can't remember more details than that.

 

[Flash]

Supposedly a "trial" has been signed off on ... could somebody in the know, i.e. in CNATRA, please explain the thought process behind this "rumor" that came out of a recent conference. Info came from a pretty good source.

No hate towards NFO's but I'm scratching my head on how this is going to work.

Don't worry about the hate. I am also curious why they would do it too and the reasoning behind it.

 

[MasterBates]

Maybe they just stick yhem in E2 students backseats during 'solos' to acclimate them to all things TrunkMonkey?

 

[FLYTPAY]

WSO's only and not to take/touch the controls.

 

[Flash]

WSO's only and not to take/touch the controls.

What's the point though?

And why do they want to stick FO's with K'ville and Meridian anyways? We have Pensacola, we should be happy with that.

 

[Raptor2216]

There are a couple of NFO studs here and one of them was trunking my lead's jet yesterday. He is supposed to be here for 2 weeks total just to get a feel for the jet. Apparently they are are doing EP's sims and are having to fly the sim while taking care of the EP's...he said it wasn't too much fun. I have not actually seem any NFO instructors but if they are actually here so I don't know anything on that subject. Supposedly, they will be doing this for the next 6-7 months while they get used to operating the Goshawk down in P-cola.

 

[FLYTPAY]

What's the point though?

And why do they want to stick FO's with K'ville and Meridian anyways? We have Pensacola, we should be happy with that.

Apparently there is a WSO surplus and the training command feels they can supplement training. I could see how it could help in ACM and Weps but the precious solo flights are huge confidence builders.

 

[jarhead]

Don't worry about the hate. I am also curious why they would do it too and the reasoning behind it.

I just didn't want my comments to be construed as NFO hate.

From what I was told, the NFO's would be instructing in the backseat of FAM complete students (i.e. the student is NATOPS qualed in the jet). Supposedly it's being looked into due to the extra amount of NFO's without a job once the Prowler goes away. A bunch of us are trying to get our hands wrapped around the thought process, if it comes to fruition.

What's the point though?

I agree, what's the point if they can't take controls? So what I don't understand is how they are going to instruct since there are times when it's better to take controls & demo a learning point instead of trying to explain it while flying. Among many other questions, how are they going to teach landings?

S/F

 

[Flash]

Apparently there is a WSO surplus and the training command feels they can supplement training. I could see how it could help in ACM and Weps but the precious solo flights are huge confidence builders.

From what I was told, the NFO's would be instructing in the backseat of FAM complete students (i.e. the student is NATOPS qualed in the jet). Supposedly it's being looked into due to the extra amount of NFO's without a job once the Prowler goes away. A bunch of us are trying to get our hands wrapped around the thought process, if it comes to fruition.

Okay, now I see.....but I still don't get it. I am trying to get my head around it too, and I just don't see a lot of benefit. I think that training with FO's is valuable but only after the pilots have gotten down the basics, and they are obviously still doing that in flight school. I just don't see the added benefit to adding a non-pilot in such an early stage in the learning process.

And I would hate to point out the obvious, but what about credibility? I have a total of eight flights where I actually flew a plane, sort-of, and it was the turbo-weenie. How the heck am I going to teach a SNA? Kind of like an EP-3 guy as an IP in VT-86, it just doesn't compute. Even in ACM and Weps, which as an ECMO I don't know much of jack about anyways.

Sounds like another 'bright' idea cooked up by someone who hasn't thought things through.

 

[puck_11]

It would make sense during ACM and Weps like flytpay said. The IP usually isn't demoing, but talking the student through the ACM manuever or talking their eyes on the target. During Weps, again they're just an observer, making sure we're not cutting off our interval and critiquing our pass. As far as the landing pattern goes, if they're past phase one, not much demoing of the landing pattern happens there.

 

[puck_11]

Even in ACM and Weps, which as an ECMO I don't know much of jack about anyways.

There are C-2 guys that teach the Weps pattern, its not very difficult. As far as ACM goes, it'd make sense to only have f-18 Wso's teaching that. I'll add that it should only be in the later stages of ACM after we have the basic maneuvers down.

 

[Hozer]

A bro from K-ville is coming to P-cola to fly some of us TRAWING 6 dudes and discuss this.
He says CNATRA believes it will actually relieve several x's per stud from IP's so they can go to other studs.
Multiply several x's (even if it's single digits) times a lot of students and you see why this is getting traction.
It seems the pilot shortage in VT's will not go away. You have DIFOPS billets going unfilled so....
The variable is how long will it take to get NFO's up to speed. Grab some tacair FO's from P-cola and on paper, it'll work and bridge a critical pilot shortage in the VT's. This is also tangential on big changes in the NFO/WSO pipe here in TW6 (i.e. the Air Force now going over to do their own WSO training and taking their T-1's with them)...The 39's are also going back to the desert in the next couple of years.
That also fits with the rumor that the primary/intermediate VT's in Pcola are to be staffed with OP-T VP DH's...make sense?
So, take your tacair FO's from 4/10 (and 86???) and homogonize them so they can instruct pilots and FO's in the -45 (and -45 sim more importantly although significantly less fun)...
Confused? Good.
I have no insight to a master plan, it just makes sense that with only 4 platforms for FO's, that intermediate and advanced might go away altogether. Make Primary a little longer, then off to the FRS (that's what VP did with UMFO and don't think TACAIR isn't thinking the same thing).
It's always the $.

It is just an idea, not saying it will come to fruition anytime soon, if ever.

 

[a_m]

Hmm, this is quite odd indeed. I know that I wouldn't want to ride in the back with someone who has only a few jet hours, especially since I couldn't explain the finer monkey skills that he's going to ask about.


As for the totally revamped NFO VT (as Hozer mentioned), I have no idea if that would work out or even be a good idea.

 

[FLYTPAY]

I know that I wouldn't want to ride in the back with someone who has only a few jet hours, especially since I couldn't explain the finer monkey skills that he's going to ask about.

You'de be ok....just wait till you see the boat at night for the first time with a CAT 1 LTJG