NJ Is Useless

[The Chief]

Althought has to do with nothing, I transferred a .38 Police Special to my son.

The .38 had a checkered background, but not in the NCIS. It was given to me 15 years ago by then D/Director INTERPOL. He had received it from a Cop in Japan, who had received it from a Cop in HongKong. No paperwork, just a gift. I had no paperwork at all on the piece.

To transfer to son, we went down to State Police Barracks, initiated paperwork for background check. Trooper went to the car, brought weapon back inside station, did a check of serial number. Trooper then personally took it back to car. Trooper signed off on it as transferred. Said "If you do not hear from us within 5 days, consider transfer complete". Trooper asked no questions about the piece.

All that said, Maryland is one of worst states in which to own a weapon.

 

[A4sForever]

The REAL tragedy here is if you were a criminal ... it would already be a "done deal". No questions asked ....

Have him ship it/transfer it to you via an FFL ("purchase it" -- I've legally purchased firearms from NJ residents and had them shipped to me and/or my FFL, depending on whether or not the piece was "modern" or C&R eligible -- the M-1 Garand is a C&R) or drive up there, put it in the trunk, and drive away.

The only guys who get screwed by the system are the law abiding guys ... it never fails to amaze.

Thanks, Dad-in-Law ...

 

[Pugs]

You have to have an FFL to recieve a firearm shipped between states; it's federal law.

No. As long as it comes to you from an FFL and all the BS paperwork is done an FFL can ship you a gun from another state. I have a fellow NFO at NPA who has an FFL and he routinely (far too routinely recently!) ships me long arms via USPS after the paperwork is filled out which we swap via FedEx.

The whole thing is pretty confusing. For example it's perfectly legal for you to ship a gun back to the factory or an out of state gunsmith and them to ship it back to you without an FFL being involved.

Now who knows what additional BS the crappy states put on you. Notice how much strict gun laws have dropped that crime in Newark? Remember it's all about control and not the guns.

A-4's right it's one of us trying to do it right that will get nailed.

 

[Cavt]

I moved from California to Quantico for TBS, had a handgun which was registered in California, I brought the gun with me, stored it at a friends house till i moved to P'Cola, now Im a florida resident and its all good. There are transit laws in states, and as I think has been said before, just go home, lock it up, or better yet take the bolt out lock it up and store them in different containers in the trunk and drive them home, you now legally own the gun your state no paperwork required...I could have done the same the other way and all I would have had to do was register the gun in Ca when I got there, which is what I did after college since I bought the gun on the east coast. You can find this stuff online, its just hard to find and harder to understand.

 

[Cavt]

That's standard procedure when transferring firearms between two states, so if it's that much of a hassle, stand by should you want to acquire more. You have to have an FFL to recieve a firearm shipped between states; it's federal law. Your best bet may be to consult a JAG or legal assistance attorney in P-Cola or NJ. I bet they'd know, or at least know where to find the answer.

You can ship long guns via the post office no one involved...

 

[The Chief]

..... The whole thing is pretty confusing. For example it's perfectly legal for you to ship a gun back to the factory or an out of state gunsmith and them to ship it back to you without an FFL being involved. ....

Exactly. But, the factory holds an FFL as well as the gunsmith, otherwise exchange would not be legal. Should the Postal Service find a firearm that is not to or from a FFL, the package is turned over to the postal inspectors. The knock on your door may be ..... :icon_rage:icon_rage

 

[Huggy Bear]

My dad has been giving me guns for years without any official ownership change. Am I a criminal ? I think I'll take my chances.

 

[Pugs]

Exactly. But, the factory holds an FFL as well as the gunsmith, otherwise exchange would not be legal. Should the Postal Service find a firearm that is not to or from a FFL, the package is turned over to the postal inspectors. The knock on your door may be ..... :icon_rage:icon_rage

But as long as it's going USPS (and a long gun) you don't need to declare it a firearm so they shouldn't know. Handguns do need to go via common carrier (UPS or FedEx) and do need to be declared as such.

It's perfectly legal to mail a firearm to yourself in another state sans FFL care of another person if you wish to do so, although you're supposed to be the person who opens it. I've known several people to do this to ensure that their target rifle (in one case) and hunting rifles (in several cases) had arrived where it needed to be before they left on a trip.

The ATF FAQ is in typical government-ese but helpful despite their best efforts.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

 

[The Chief]

But as long as it's going USPS (and a long gun) you don't need to declare it a firearm so they shouldn't know. ...[/url]

I do not mean to be argumentative, this is an important issue, one that can cause one a lot of grief. My only objective is to keep anyone that will listen to me out of trouble. So .....

Talked to a friend, former Postal Inspector and here is what he said:

You can ship anything you want through the USPS, including firearms, crack, cocaine, herioin, high explosivies, except Nitro, but including C4, without declaring. You only have to worry if you get caught, and many do get caught.

On the issue of firearm shipments, his advice with forget USPS, use UPS, FEDEX and etc. He said the folks at the USPS counter in most postoffices are ill informed, and this it is the shippers responsibility to be informed.

From ATF regulations he provided:


"A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State via USPS. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms, however you must declare contents of package to USPS personnel when shipping. Handguns are not mailable, by anyone, a common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm, including a handgun, by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.


A person may ship via common carrier or contract carrier, a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

While I am, by nature very lazy I have not researched this issue other than leaning on a friend. So I do not know. Should you get "caught" You may be able to win in court, if you get a good lawyer.

It is serious business, as A4s said so correctly, it is the honest injun that has most to lose, the crooks do not care. I would never use USPS to mail a firearm, as there is a lot of only confusion out there. Use Fedex, UPS, DHL etc.

:sleep_125:sleep_125

 

[ChuckMK23]

What the government needs to know and what the want to know are two different things.

The problem is that NJ requires ALL firearms (including BB Guns) to be registered. And the rifle is registered in his name at his address, and he could potentially get in alot of trouble just giving it to me for 2 reasons:

1. I'm not a NJ resident and
2. I cannot legally own a gun in NJ b/c I don't have a NJ license.

Remind your Father-in-Law that his FIRST mistake was registering that rifle. What the heck was he thinking?

 

[ChuckMK23]

Exactly. But, the factory holds an FFL as well as the gunsmith, otherwise exchange would not be legal. Should the Postal Service find a firearm that is not to or from a FFL, the package is turned over to the postal inspectors. The knock on your door may be ..... :icon_rage:icon_rage

Which is why god created FedEX!

I Fedex stuff all the time to places like Kalifornia - for IPSC Matches. Never had a problem - and it's easier than following all the stupid rules.

 

[TheBubba]

Remind your Father-in-Law that his FIRST mistake was registering that rifle. What the heck was he thinking?

It NJ... its registered upon purchase... seeing as how NJ requires a "purchasers permit".

I couldn't even buy bb's for my brother-in-law's bb gun last time I was up there... and why? Because I am a FL resident...

 

[RAS]

Talk to an FFL in FL and get the straight info. See what they'll charge to receive the M-1 and file the Form 4473 (used to be yellow). Ship the rifle to the FFL (he'll tell you the best way to ship, UPS, FEDEX, whatever), fill out the 4473 (used to be yellow) when the rifle arrives. After that it's yours and NJ can't go after your FIL for illegally transferring the Garand. With the rifle registered in NJ, I don't see a way out of doing more paperwork to legally transfer ownership. Paperwork in FL should be a piece of cake.

 

[TheBubba]

Thanks for all the info... unfortunately, someone else has already called dibs on the rifle... So I'll have to go elsewhere for an M-1. Oh well... Sadly, its going to sit up on a shelf from now until eternity.

 

[RAS]

I got mine from CMP, unfortunately they seem to be out of stock. In a way that's a good thing because many of the anti-gun types wanted them destroyed. According to the CMP FAQ, you and I, having current and retiree military ID cards don't need to join a CMP affiliated club (that's a change since I bought mine). Get your paperwork in to CMP and get on the list; the next time they have rifles available get one.